Author Topic: Harddrive or Power Supply?  (Read 3213 times)

Offline Reb

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2011, 04:45:44 PM »
@ djohnston,
                   I'd hazard a guess of late 1980's early 1990's for the wd 212mb
Main machine Amd Phenom II, 4gb ram, 500gb wd hard drive, radeonHD 4200
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Offline Yankee

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2011, 05:26:42 PM »
Had the same freezing and random shutdown problem a few months ago. This always happened when playing games or watching videos.

I cleaned my cpu fan and heat sink , they were very dirty and I also upgraded my power supply from 350W to 500W.

No problems  since.

Thought about this yesterday when I saw an ATI Radeon video card installed
in a new Gateway with a 200 watt power supply.    Well the specs say that
card needs a 400 watt power supply minimum in a desktop. 
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Offline Neo

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2011, 10:50:52 AM »
Well it's been five days since I reseated my hard-drive's SATA and power cable and haven't had a single problem since then.

I returned the Seagate hard-drive for a full refund.

Just a few weeks ago I had cleaned inside the computer case with a plastic hose attached to a vaccum cleaner (there was surprising little dust to begin with).

My power supply is 650W (I bought a much larger PS than I really needed in order to avoid any potential problems).

I built this computer 5.5 years ago and the two WD drives both crapped out shortly after their three year warranty expired... coincidence?  I wonder.

I hope that all of the previous mysterious computer issues that I had were due to a loose SATA cable and that reseating the SATA and power cable will have permanently resolved this issue.

A mighty BIG thanks to O-P for the suggestion.
I never would have thought of that.


Offline ruel24

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2011, 11:15:16 AM »
Out of curiosity, what brand/model PSU do you have?

Offline Neo

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2011, 02:14:25 PM »
Out of curiosity, what brand/model PSU do you have?

I had to dig up the box it came, it is an Enermax Noisetaker and it is 600 Watts not 650 as I had previously mentioned.


Offline ruel24

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2011, 02:30:44 PM »
Enermax is a good brand. Cheap PSUs claim high watts and aren't. PSUs are the cause of many problems.

Offline weirdwolf

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 06:19:59 PM »
A good place to check out a PSU before you buy one.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/page/power
Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow.


Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2011, 05:18:18 PM »
As rekabe already mentioned, overheating can be a source of random shutdowns.  Add a temperature monitoring widget to your desktop to see what's going on, and read on.  There are lots of good hardware tips here so far... let me add a few:

Power Supplies: I can't say enough good things about Antec, and in spades for PC Power & Cooling.  Of the two PC Power & Cooling is the more expensive, but worth it.  Very clean, very cool running, and more than capable of delivering what the label says and then some.  Antec is better price/performance-wise but less heavy duty, and so a good choice for less mission-critical hardware.  There are others out there, but those two stand out for me.

Power supplies can cause that "sudden shutdown" kind of problem if they are supplying unclean power to the motherboard (makes CPU and support chips run hotter).  A good way to check for this (without resorting to an oscilloscope) is just to monitor the baseline temperatures for your equipment with the power supply under consideration.  If you see a sudden sharp rise from baseline, and your heatsink and fan are clean and working, look at the power supply as a suspect.  (There are also power supply testers out there that can properly load test a supply without a motherboard, but these require some training to use correctly.)

Hard Drives: I used to be a big Seagate fan, but not so much any more.  I've had my best luck lately with drives from Hitachi Global Storage Technologies.  I have a 160GB external (it used to serve in my old Gateway laptop) that has been going strong for about seven years now with nary a hitch, and a 500GB in my Dell 620 that is nothing short of rock solid.  Both are fast, quiet, and reasonably cool in operation.  I also have a 1TB SATA drive in my Precision 690 that is diabolically fast, quiet, and has been reliable so far under conditions I can only describe as "quite demanding" (my 690 is the test-bed I'm using for PCLinuxOS 64-bit and a few other, more radical things). 

Go for higher spindle speeds and larger caches on magnetic drives, as these will make a major difference in system throughput.

Heat Sink/Fan Units: For most systems, these do not have to be anything special, but good quality units installed correctly with ball bearing or magnetically levitated fan types are quieter and more durable in service.  The really important things when installing a sink are getting proper thermal coupling (a fresh smear of high quality couplant paste such as Arctic Silver or a new heat transfer pad is essential whenever removing/replacing a heatsink).  If you are using a heatpipe type assembly, check the heatpipes for cracks before installation, as these will impair the sink's ability to transfer heat.  Good heatsinks for normal use are available from a wide variety of vendors, but if you want high-end performance, look at those from Thermaltake, Zalman, and Scythe.

Always check the rotation of the fan on your CPU heatsink, make sure it turns in the direction the manufacturer intended, and is mounted correctly on the sink.

That's enough for now... don't want to turn this into a tech manual.

Later On,
D



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Offline ooseven

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2011, 07:06:04 PM »
Had the same freezing and random shutdown problem a few months ago. This always happened when playing games or watching videos.

I cleaned my cpu fan and heat sink , they were very dirty and I also upgraded my power supply from 350W to 500W.

No problems  since.

Dirty pc will for sure do some damage to hardware. Where it will no one knows.

But it will. :P
Thank You....
ooseven

Offline cirrus_minor

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2011, 11:21:46 AM »
One thing about certain PSU's is that they will push out more than advertised , whereas others push out less than advertised , for instance , a stock dell PSU advertised @ 305W will actually push out more almost 400W.
Four Important Rules to follow for Power Supply Unit (PSU) selection:
In no particular order
1) Do NOT skimp on the power supply unit - you are entrusting an expensive investment you've made in your computer to this unit.
2) Brand/Manufacturer reputation is VERY important
3) Rated/Advertised Wattage is NOT an indicator of quality or unit power.
4) Do NOT trust a PSU that weighs less than your CPU to power your system.
Quote
freezing and random shutdown problem

Ive also seen this behaviour when a PSU goes bad , but lets hope it only the cables in this case  :)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:31:46 AM by cirrus_minor »


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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2011, 06:11:38 PM »
Any more, the weight of a power supply has little to do with its output quality or strength if it is constructed using more modern designs.  Toroidal core transformers and other innovations can reduce the mass needed to do the same power conditioning substantially.  I've seen some lightweight units that compare very favorably in terms of their ability to produce very clean power at rated output levels or better.

Whatever power supply unit is selected for a given system, its mortal enemies are dust and smoke, so keep those out in the first place if at all possible, and take steps to remove them if they build up in the unit.

Modern fanless power supplies (very quiet) are particularly susceptible to overheating from dust build-up on radiating surfaces.  Keep 'em clean to keep 'em running longer.

As cirrus_minor points out, it's never a good idea to go cheap on a power supply - the money spent on the front end will save trouble on the back-end.  That said, nothing's wrong with doing one's research to find the best price/performance point for a system - too big a power supply will only waste energy and drive up the electric bill.  (Case in point:  my Dell Precision 690 has a 1kW supply unit - so I only run it when I'm actually using it.  The darn thing puts lots of heat into the room, so the A/C works harder, too.)

I would tend to agree that the manufacturers with higher reputations got there by building generally better equipment, but this can change over time.  Do the research.  Due diligence in selecting components will carry you a long way.  (Never let "builder's fever" get you too carried away - that way lies madness and frustration.)

I better stop there...

Later On,
D
"The Way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing.  One word to a wise man; one lash to a bright horse."

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Offline cirrus_minor

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2011, 02:52:35 AM »
@horusfalcon  very informative posts +1


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Offline ruel24

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2011, 06:23:46 AM »
I would tend to agree that the manufacturers with higher reputations got there by building generally better equipment, but this can change over time.


The thing is, the brand on the power supply is most likely not the manufacturer. This is how reputations are made and lost. Some brands start out with a really good manufacturer, only to save money by going to a cheaper one later. IMO, Seasonic makes some of the best power supplies around. I tend to gravitate to PSUs with a brand on it I trust (since Seasonic may/may not build a crappy supply spec'd out by the selling brand), and actually made by Seasonic. Right now, I'm using a Corsair PSU made by them.

Find out more about manufacturer vs. brand here:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Discover-Your-Power-Supplys-Real-Manufacturer/370/1

Offline Yankee

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2011, 11:24:38 AM »
How does one determine wattage ?

If I had a Pentium dual core 2.8 ghz
Two 500 gb HD's
A DVD-RW
A Radeon 5xxx class video card

I've seen new machines like that with a 350 watt
power supply but a 500 watt power supply
seems more appropriate.   At least 400 watts
for the video card.


FF
ASUS EeePc 900HA netbook  1.6 Ghz Atom CPU  1GB RAM
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Offline djohnston

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Re: Harddrive or Power Supply?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2011, 02:01:06 PM »
How does one determine wattage ?

If I had a Pentium dual core 2.8 ghz
Two 500 gb HD's
A DVD-RW
A Radeon 5xxx class video card

The manufacturers usually publish specifications on how much energy their devices will use. You'll want to know how many watts each device uses under full load. Add up all the wattages and you have the total. When choosing the power supply, you should choose one with a higher output than the total wattage to compensate for under reporting wattages used on all your devices, as well as under reporting the actual capabilities of the power supply.

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