PCLinuxOS OpenBox 2011.8 - Impressive!

[nightcap]

Hi good people

A while back I loaded and assessed Neal's full LXDE v.2011.6 PCLOS. For desktop linux users, a first-rate distro - neat, fast, stable, functional, good repo support, with matchless wireless connectivity "out of the box". I have not tried his follow-up version. No doubt the successor is more refined. Maybe when I have more time?

Now I've allowed my curiosity to wander over to Melodie's OpenBox re-spin, and I must say, hers (?) maintains the PCLOS standards and then some. A few thoughts, if I may, FWIW. YMMV.

In terms of the chemistry I'd prefer Brasero instead of GnomeBaker, Claws instead of Sylpheed, palimpsest instead of "storage device utility", and perhaps save space by ditching some of those small incidental "graphics" apps plus gigolo. Instead may I suggest to add in Asunder, lxappearance and Firefox mozplugger plug-in (Quicktime/WM). A minor quibble with app icons suddenly appearing on the OpenBox menu - are menu icons appropriate? I thought a core OB design idea was to cut down on "eye-candy" clutter.......make menus minimalist. (Now there's a dev catch-phrase!)

Also I attempted to find Google Earth in the repo's - no dice. Could raw googleearth v6.1 be in the process of being packaged and loaded on servers/mirrors perhaps? Available later maybe?

An interesting aspect is that we have an OpenBox implementation with one's choice of LXpanel or Tint. Clever and useful. Additionally whenever I demonstrate an example of user-friendly Linux OS, this enables me to encourage Windoze victims to migrate with an attractive combination of classic, pop-up LX menu style and right-clickable, customiseable, unrestricted, elegant OpenBox menu style simultaneously on the one desktop. C'est magnifique! All in all, a marvellous contribution to the world of desktop Linux OS. Impressive. Thanks.

nightcap


HP ProBook 6450b (Intel i3-370)
Custom AMD-64 tower
Miscellaneous other devices

[djohnston]

Welcome to the forum, nightcap.

In terms of the chemistry I'd prefer Brasero instead of GnomeBaker, Claws instead of Sylpheed, ...

One of the nice things about PCLinuxOS is that you can customize it to your heart's content, then create a personal iso, storing all your customizations. You can use that iso to re-install or install to another machine with all your preferred programs and tweaks already in place. Not everyone will have the same application preferences.

A minor quibble with app icons suddenly appearing on the OpenBox menu - are menu icons appropriate? I thought a core OB design idea was to cut down on "eye-candy" clutter.......make menus minimalist.

I think you'll have a disagreement there with Melodie, as well as other users, including myself. She campaigned for that openbox-menu application. If I'm not mistaken, PCLinuxOS was the first to have it.

Also I attempted to find Google Earth in the repo's - no dice. Could raw googleearth v6.1 be in the process of being packaged and loaded on servers/mirrors perhaps? Available later maybe?

A search of the forum for googleearth would have brought up this.

[nightcap]

Hi DJ

Thanks for your welcome, helpful comments and linked threads. Yes, indeed, another great aspect of linux is creativity and democracy. Roll your own, as they say. I only mentioned some minor preferences for the sake of feeding back. I've grown accustomed to minimalist OpenBox desktops, including arguably from one of the most intelligent distros in recent years, #! (ooops, sorry, forgot; forbidden to mention other distros here). Hence my aesthetic preferences. YMMV. That Google Earth repo blip has also got me intrigued. Synaptic mirror is also AARNET, here in Oz. Checked two other mirrors - still no dice. Will keep pluggin' away........

nightcap

[djohnston]

You're welcome, nightcap. Glad to have another Aussie Linux user here, no matter what the distro.  I've heard it said that Linux users in Australia are as rare as Amiga users in Australia. Don't know if that's true in your neck of the woods or not.

Don't know what the deal is with Google Earth. One day the package was there, the next day it was gone. Puzzling.

EDIT: Doing a Google search for Google Earth shows the Google Earth: Download Google Earth for PC, Mac, or Linux page. But the next search result, System Requirements for Google Earth - Google Earth Help, shows a 404. Google seems to have lost track of its own pages. 

[Neal ManBear]

Hi good people

A while back I loaded and assessed Neal's full LXDE v.2011.6 PCLOS. For desktop linux users, a first-rate distro - neat, fast, stable, functional, good repo support, with matchless wireless connectivity "out of the box". I have not tried his follow-up version. No doubt the successor is more refined. Maybe when I have more time?

     
Each new release is a 'snapshot' of the previous release fully updated. In other words, I keep a stock install on one of my build partitions and keep it regularly and fully updated. About once every three months (or when the updates reach a sufficiently large volume), I create the new ISO.

Now I've allowed my curiosity to wander over to Melodie's OpenBox re-spin, and I must say, hers (?) maintains the PCLOS standards and then some. A few thoughts, if I may, FWIW. YMMV.

     
Yep, Melodie does excellent work.      

[nightcap]

Amiga? Why not Commodore? Or Amstrad? Better still, ENIAC........

Downunder there remains an overwhelming complacency and apathy relating to M$ market dominance. Sheep mentality. Follow the herd. Salute the corporation. Keep up with the Ballmer's. Now we await further so-called M$ "innovations": Registry & Malware Version 8, bullying hardware suppliers into blocking dual-boots and competing OSes without security certificates, and running a corporate program of continuous IT patent litigation to underpin flagging profits (e.g., reportedly raking in $500 million royalties per annum from Android phone makers alone. You should check out M$'s laughable, alleged patent infringements. M$ are preying on financially-less-robust companies that cannot afford lengthy legal battles.)

Latest version of Google Earth was released about 10 days ago. The glitch we're facing is likely connected in some way. All will be revealed in good time.   

Thanks for helpful info, Neal. Handy to know your schedule.

nightcap

[Neal ManBear]

..... Handy to know your schedule.

     
I didn't explain well, I see. That wasn't a schedule. In fact, there is no schedule. We release on a "when it is ready" basis. The "about every three months" is an estimation (keyword = about), not a schedule.     

Each new release is intended for new users, so they will not need to do a very large update immediately after installation. Those who already have an installation and have kept their system fully up-to-date already have the newest version and have no need to download and install the latest ISO release. This is the advantage of a rolling release.     

[nightcap]

Hey Neal

Rollin' with the punches.        It's all good, mate.

nightcap

[djohnston]

Amiga? Why not Commodore? Or Amstrad? Better still, ENIAC........

I was told "Linux, Amiga," and, I believe, "BeOS". I don't live in Oz, so I can only go by second hand anecdotes. We're on the same page as far as Microsoft goes, I see.

[nightcap]

Hi DJ

It would be folly for me to assess the state of GNU/linux Downunder. I'm not a member of any formal users' group, though such groups remain active around our main IT teaching institutions. You might gauge a fraction of  Aussie on-line participation from this forum:  http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/39  , which can get rowdy and terse when absolutist young ego's scrap over what is allegedly "best" or "correct procedure". Do you see any of that over where you're based?

As to Linux usage overall it appears to be gaining fans steadily, at least wherever I try to assist the process. Strong opposition to adoption of Linux normally comes from ignoramuses, sceptics and arch-conservative female partners. All I can do is gently/patiently explain all the advantages and respond to any doubts. A major part of this challenge comes from many PC users' ingrained, unfounded fears and past experiences, almost all derived from M$ OS BS. (Apple users seldom exhibit such angst. Why would they?)

Linux seems constantly in a state of flux. Its progress involves complex world-wide interactions, bringing together like-minded, community-spirited contributors.

nightcap

[nightcap]

BTW last year there was a press release from the head of our NSW State Police Computer Crime Squad stating the only secure platforms for on-line financial transactions he would countenance were Linux PCs/notebooks or smartphones. (Well, right now he may hold different views on smartphones after more recent coverage of wifi hot-spot hacking and a plague of Android app malware.)

His views were confirmed subsequently by my local Anglican Church minister who is also our Police Chaplain, following his annual police chaplain's conference in Sydney. As part of the group's continuous training they all endured a two-hour lecture from the aforesaid IT police chief on the advantages of Linux and perils of unsecured computing!   

[djohnston]

You might gauge a fraction of  Aussie on-line participation from this forum:  http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/39  , which can get rowdy and terse when absolutist young ego's scrap over what is allegedly "best" or "correct procedure". Do you see any of that over where you're based?

Well, I took a look at the first 2 pages of the topmost thread listed at that site. I see the same arguments tossed around on pro-MS sites almost everywhere. The three I see the most are also echoed there.

1. Linux is just too hard to use.
2. Can you expect an "average" computer user to install Linux from scratch?
3. Windows7 has more hardware drivers than Linux.

Number one needs no comment, other than to say that it originates from ignorance. My answer to number two is simple. Can you expect an average computer user to install (not reinstall) Windows from scratch?

I've never had anyone take me up on my offer to check their "clean" Windows machine for malware. The person is usually so sure they have no malware, yet refuse to have the machine checked. The same goes for my other challenge. That is, to take two identical laptops and install Linux and Windows side by side, Linux on one and Windows on the other. The only caveat is that the Windows installation is limited to the Windows7 installation disk only. No third party driver installation disks are allowed.

As for "my neck of the woods", I would have to say that the same contentions consistently show up among computer users, no matter what country the discussion is hosted in. This forum sometimes delves into a situation where different solutions are proposed for a problem. Sometimes, I think I have the best solution, only to be proven wrong with a better one. It pays to have an open mind.

[nightcap]

Agreed DJ. Always beneficial to keep an open mind. IT, hardware and devices are changing all around us, all the time.

Anyone who witnesses an old XP or Vista laptop take all of 6 minutes to boot up, then calmly asks the owner if that was mostly always the case, who in turn responds, "Yep, don't all computers take that long to boot up?", is obliged to offer practical alternatives, and demonstrate them at first hand. That's where Live Linux media are so practical and effective. Loading a real-time Linux OS is never a guarantee the M$ victim will take to it, but it's a start.

Proprietary, restrictive BIOS settings will contribute further to M$'s decline (ACPI, UEFI etc). Also the gargantuan level of counterfeit M$ software available throughout Asia. An estimated 95% of all Asian M$ software is counterfeit. M$'s remedy? Fix their current price of M$ Office at US$9.00 for Asian markets only.  

Better-designed Linux installations are smooth as silk, almost on a par with hand-held M$ OSes, once one has mastered the basics of partitioning. There are several good "how to's" and "wiki's" on-line waiting to be digested. (Always offering to help those in need.) Well remember the dark old days of Linux when faultless hardware drivers were elusive and retrospective. My, how that thorny obstacle has been (mostly) overcome. Such progress is a tribute to all those dedicated community contributors that span our globe. There is little point comparing hardware recognition between platforms - either the complete device is fully operational for the end user, or not. End of story.

As a purist I do will not have M$ on any of my devices. Haven't touched M$ for at least 8 years (personally evaded Vista completely - foresaw the excrement before it hit the fan - witnessed untold Vista carnage along the way). Neither do I offer to install dual-boot systems for friends or clients. There is no point (at least for me).

My commitment to the principles of GNU/Linux should not be interpreted as self-righteous crusade. Far from it. What motivates me most of all is the sense of shared community, the sparkling intelligence of how we can power our devices alternatively, the diversity and creativity of many approaches taken, and of enabling individuality, in a world increasingly beset by smothering corporate hegemony.

nightcap

[melodie]

Hi,

nightcap, thanks for your compliments. Now to your suggests questions and wishes:

Googleearth is in the repos. Look I do have it:

$ rpm -qil googleearth
Name        : googleearth                  Relocations: (not relocatable)
Version     : 6.0.2.2074                        Vendor: (none)
Release     : 1pclos2011                    Build Date: lun. 11 avril 2011 11:37:59 CEST

You can have the menus without icons. Very easy ! Just change in the file /home/user/.config/openbox/menus.xml :
line number 3:

   <menu id="desktop-app" label="Applications" execute="openbox-menu -g -t 'sakura -e'" />

add a "-i" switch:

<menu id="desktop-app" label="Applications" execute="openbox-menu -i -g -t 'sakura -e'" />

for more, look at the output of "openbox-menu --help".

About the choice of applications : I find Gnomebaker more complete than Brasero, Sylpheed more reliable, light and stable than Claws, and for the other ones I don't know...

As said by djohnston, try to do your own. Fast howto:

install on one partition only, create a user you name "guest", a root password you name "root", update, remove/add applications, remove all files from /usr/share/doc except the HTML directory, then use Bleachbit-root and Bleachbit normal, (already configured at the best possible in Openbox versions), clean the distro, then go to / and type as root find . -name "*.old" remove old unneeded files found by the find command line, repeat to look for eventuel "*.rpmsave" and "*.rpmnew" files, then look in your user directory for unneeded files (such as .xsession-errors, and personal config files that you don't need to keep, such as the geany folder in /home/user/.config ... )
To keep the changes (ie : if you install plugins or else to Firefox : save the config files to /etc/skel, be careful that all files there belong to root.root).

Whatever changes you keep : if you add any plugin to Firefox or other web browser, you must ensure that the license of the plugin allows you to do so, and you must also get sure that if you redistribute the modified PCLinuxOS, the way you do it complies with Texstar's rules of distribution here mentioned: Can I distribute a remastered version of PCLinuxOS?

Now to do the ISO : quit X, (allows saving the resources of the machine for the remastering process), login to a tty as root, be in the /root directory, then type: "umount -a", then type "mylivecd mynew-openbox-to-my-taste.iso" (without the quotes). Go prepare your dinner, have dinner, come back : your ISO should be ready.

Regards,
Mélodie

[nightcap]

Merci Beaucoup, Melodie!   

Will continue luring Google Earth from one of the mirrors.

About the choice of applications : I find Gnomebaker more complete than Brasero, Sylpheed more reliable, light and stable than Claws, and for the other ones I don't know...

Asunder is a light, user-friendly, dependable audio ripper. LXappearance enables quick changes of themes, icons etc. As far as I am aware there is no licensing issue with Mozplugger - it is "free". BTW I've found occasional issues with Sylpheed in terms of Western ASCII/Unicode character set recognition glitches (unexpectedly prompting for UTF-8 etc). However, when requested to load an alternative Windoze email client, I've happily installed Sylpheed. Good to go. 

When I have more time, I'll carry out your suggestions, Melodie. Thanks once again.

nightcap