Bonsai 2011 last shot - choices

[melodie]

Hi,

Today I installed KDE Minime to my Dell P4 with HyperThreading desktop to get it close to the installed Bonsai for comparisons and also viewing to localize it to French later. I have done a list of the packages installed to Bonsai, a list of thoses installed to KDE Minime, and came to the conclusion there was not much to add.

I have followed the example of Minime and updated initscripts and mylivecd to the ones which are not in stable actually. I checked the file inittab after the update because the post message said there was a /etc/inittab.rpmnew, but there wasn't one so I wondered if something went wrong there. I looked at the differences, there was a very small one, in one the line for booting to rl 3 was commented, in the other it was not commented. And I have checked also the file rc.local, as this is the one where the zram config stand. So I noticed that the line that was before in /etc/rc.d/rc.local :

Code: [Select]

. /etc/init.d/functions
is not anymore in the new rc.local.

I don't know if this is important or not. I tried to shutdown KDE, and also earlier, Zen Mini, with the ConsoleKit command line used in Bonsai and other Openbox standalone versions : it does shut them down without any trouble.

Here I am summing up. You must understand that at each new stage, change, addition in this I did a shutdown. (And yesterday I also updated libupower1 to libupower-glib1, because the number versions were not matching with the new upower arrived in the updates. I had also downloaded the sources to see how it is organised as well as checked in the pclinuxos upower src rpm and libupower-glib1 rpm) (all which is available... )

I have checked the services started, and compared them; I installed at, to get atd, as in Minime; The result is so : whatever I did, I still reboots after approximately 20 seconds as long as I keep the default options on the kernel line, which is "acpi=on". If I remove it, it does shutdown cleanly.

On the thread for testing it, the last who came with a feedback is djohnston, and several options he used just don't give any other result than a reboot after shutdown, on one of his machines.

The choice is so : I present Bonsai to Texstar with the latest 2.6.38.8.pclos3.bfs kernel, and thoses who get trouble with shutdown try to add or remove options, or I reinstall the older kernel that was working well for all ?

Thoses who say "Openbox is the only one where it does not work" just will pass and get Lxde, Kde, any other version where all works... or help find where the problem comes from, because Openbox and Bonsai are built on etjr's cli.iso itself built directly from the rpms of the repositories. It does not contain any special trick apart from zram, and this one once removed the problem stays, so it cannot be the guilty one.

I'll make a few more tests within one or two days, in the meanwhile I would like you to tell me what solution you prefer.

I will also be back with a full diff that I will post at pastebin, for who would be interested to see the differences in the installed packages.

Regards,
Mélodie

PS: here is the diff:
http://pastebin.com/kq3BTgqW

Since, I have added pclinuxos-menu-messages and kernel-2.6.38.8-pclos3 to give it a try.

[Yankee]

So I noticed that the line that was before in /etc/rc.d/rc.local :

Code: [Select]

. /etc/init.d/functions
is not anymore in the new rc.local.

And it's not in the new 2011 LXDE rc.local either,   FYI.
Otherwise, my shutdowns are working, the newer kernel
on a hard drive or flash drive is fine with me.  I'll check
again tonight just to be sure then.   

[melodie]

So I noticed that the line that was before in /etc/rc.d/rc.local :

Code: [Select]

. /etc/init.d/functions
is not anymore in the new rc.local.

And it's not in the new 2011 LXDE rc.local either,   FYI.
Otherwise, my shutdowns are working, the newer kernel
on a hard drive or flash drive is fine with me.  I'll check
again tonight just to be sure then.   

Hi,

I sent a mail to Texstar a few minutes ago to let him know the stage of the project and ask what he thinks is the best to do. I have in the meanwhile tried again several combinations in the P 4 Dell hyper threading where I meet with the issue, and I installed the kernel 2.6.37.4.pclos1.bfs which here behaves perfectly with the shutdown, and at other people's machines where the newer one doesn't, it would be shutting down correctly as well, as it was reported. I just had the curiosity to see what options Grub had setup in it, after I had tried to remove the options in the advanced button of the Grub configuration, then restore them to the default, while reinstalling Grub to that partition. The options now are "apic lapic". The acpi option is gone. Just the "nokmsboot" is still there.

While we talk about information, I tried to remove the acpi=on option from the kernel line in my other machines and they still start and shutdown without any glitch.

Regards,
Mélodie

[Yankee]

the kernel 2.6.37.4.pclos1.bfs which here behaves perfectly with the shutdown

A newer kernel, even a non bfs kernel could be added by the users if some software
eventually requires it.   I use default settings for grub, what works I don't mess with.
My Celeron (PIII) has been pretty reliable overall also.   Just have to live with one
"known issue" for 2011 looks like.   Hope the terminal gives some messages if there's
a dependency or two missing, but doesn't seem there would be.


Patrick

[melodie]

A newer kernel, even a non bfs kernel could be added by the users if some software
eventually requires it.

This is what I think actually.

I use default settings for grub, what works I don't mess with. My Celeron (PIII) has been pretty reliable overall also.   Just have to live with one "known issue" for 2011 looks like.   Hope the terminal gives some messages if there's a dependency or two missing, but doesn't seem there would be.

Patrick

I did a research on the web (several in fact), a search on our own forum, where it seems a few people meet with shutdown issues, but generally it's in the other direction : it does not finish the shutdown. Here it does not want to stay shut, and that kind of issue is very new to me...

[MrBill]

Thoses who say "Openbox is the only one where it does not work" just will pass and get Lxde, Kde, any other version where all works...

Melodie,

I am sad to be one of those where it does not work.  But I want to tell you something that may be inspirational for you.  Your Bonsai project is what attracted me back to PCLOS a couple of months ago when I became more annoyed with MS and more interested in Linux again.  I like the minimalist approach and think it will become more important in the future!  I only wish that I had more knowledge and experience so that I could be helpful in solving this problem.

--Bill

[melodie]

Thoses who say "Openbox is the only one where it does not work" just will pass and get Lxde, Kde, any other version where all works...

Melodie,

I am sad to be one of those where it does not work.  But I want to tell you something that may be inspirational for you.  Your Bonsai project is what attracted me back to PCLOS a couple of months ago when I became more annoyed with MS and more interested in Linux again.  I like the minimalist approach and think it will become more important in the future!  I only wish that I had more knowledge and experience so that I could be helpful in solving this problem.

--Bill

Hi MrBill,
I could see that you did your best. I also did my best, and I also have a machine where the problem exists, but not with Minime KDE4 2011-07 nor with the latest Zen mini. As I said in the above post, I have tried to narrow but the origin of the problem slipped between my hands.

If Texstar accepts theses versions with the former kernel, then it will work out of the box for the majority persons and machines. Then each one can switch to a newer kernel, and if a problem arises then he can either try other boot options or switch back.

Or maybe with the diff I posted (have you looked at the link to pastebin ?) maybe someone will see what package I should have installed that is not in. the packages in Bonsai only have a sign "-" at the beginning of the line, the ones installed only to Minime have a sign "+" at the beginning of the line, thoses installed on both have no sign, and all is sorted alphabetically.

You can try Bonsai again, with the former kernel, and the changes done as I explained before... The date build is July 23. (264 MB) (but report at the other thread, here is just for talking about this particular problem and the choices which would be the best)

And it is nice to know that a light and easy to use version is useful to a few persons.

Thanks,
Mélodie

[ongoto]

hello forum  

I had a broken link in /boot; kernel.h -> /boot/kernel.h........
Dropped the /boot/ part in the link.
Didn't fix anything though.

To fix the delayed restart after halt, I installed kernel-2.6.33.7-pclos6.
Remains off now.

The problem that persists is the screen resolution not being detected.  Only 800x600 works.

AMD64 - 2gB - nvidia - realtek

Edit: While I was fixing things earlier, I added some packages, libraries, etc. for testing the halt problem and decided to reinstall to wipe the slate and start again fresh.  Same cd, same partition, same machine.  I don't have the restart problem now.
I realized finally that I had used the default (Paris) time zone on the first attempt.  My time here is 8 hours later. I wasn't careful and the screen resolution wouldn't let me see the whole window, so I messed up.  To prove my suspicions, I reinstalled once again (Paris time) and sure enough, the restart problem is back. 

[melodie]

Hi ongoto,

In the very last bonsai I uploaded the kernel is the 2.6.37.4.pclos1.bfs : the one which was already in the previous official version provided in 2010 11. With that one kernel, no restart problem whatever the timezone is, at least here in this P4, and other testers and users had reported the same behavior as well. For the screen resolution I suggest you try this: login to tty as root, move xorg.conf out of the way : cd to /etc/X11 and "mv xorg.conf xorg.conf-back" then "gdm stop" then launch drakx11 and configure the setting. Reboot, (might need a second reboot, I have seen that in my machine with nvidia lately, but this is announced by a message at the end of the first reboot).

Once the screen problem solved, if you seek for the origin of the halt problem that don't stay halted with the latest kernel, I am interested.
Regards,
Mélodie

PS: I am not convinced that the timezone is related to the problem, for 1 : I am in the Paris timezone and meet with the issue as everybody else, 2 if the timezone would be related I would meet with the issue with the other versions : Minime and Zen that I installed on the same machine and which are configured to Chicago timezone, and with theses 2 I didn't meet with the issue.

[ongoto]

Melodie

If you use timezones west of you, you will never see the errors like "operation cancelled: file timestamp in the future" because it is earlier to the west.
Using timezones east of you will produce those errors.  Only future timestamps cause problems and could really mess up the halt script.

This is not the fix for everyone of course,  but it made the difference here.

I really like Bonzai by the way.     It's working nice and I think you did a standup job.
Thank you very much.

[melodie]

ongoto,

Then if I setup the timezone to Chicago when I am on the first reboot post-install, would that be the solution ?
I am happy that you like this flavor. Thanks for telling me.

Regards,
Mélodie

[melodie]

Melodie

If you use timezones west of you, you will never see the errors like "operation cancelled: file timestamp in the future" because it is earlier to the west.

Hi ongoto,
I forgot to ask you : under what circumstances have you met with this error message ? (It has been a long time I didn't see this... )

Regards,
Mélodie

[ongoto]

Hi ongoto,
I forgot to ask you : under what circumstances have you met with this error message ? (It has been a long time I didn't see this... )

Regards,
Mélodie

.

I have seen it when booting or when having other kinds of problems.  Not very often with this distro

[djohnston]

On the thread for testing it, the last who came with a feedback is djohnston, and several options he used just don't give any other result than a reboot after shutdown, on one of his machines.

Actually, there was one case where I got a clean shutdown from the live CD. Maybe you missed it.

I booted from CD again, pressed F6 (Kernel Options), then selected No Local APIC from the menu. After selecting Shutdown from the menu, the PC powered down completely and did not restart. Because all this was from a live CD, there were no saved system logs.

What I left out is that the CD ejected cleanly, gave me the message to remove the CD and press Enter. I did, and the machine shut down normally.

Your Bonsai project is what attracted me back to PCLOS a couple of months ago when I became more annoyed with MS and more interested in Linux again.  I like the minimalist approach and think it will become more important in the future!

What attracted me first to using Linux was the absence of security problems due to using Windows. What grabbed my loyalty to PCLinuxOS is the stability and quality of the packages and the overall system. I'll admit that I used to be quite an "application junky", installing some programs that were almost never used. When the switch from the KDE 3 desktop to the KDE 4 desktop came, I switched ... to another desktop.

Some may say I'm just an old coot, stuck in my ways and "afraid" of change. Hey, I changed desktops, didn't I? (Several times.) Like you, I now prefer the minimalist approach. There's just something about the simplicity and stability of an XFCE, LXDE or Openbox desktop. I believe I see the same minimalist qualities in the monthly screenshots of LKJ, Archie and mmesantos1, just to name a few. And I no longer install applications I don't need or won't use. So, MrBill, I can appreciate your choice. And watch out for Sluggo!

[melodie]

Actually, there was one case where I got a clean shutdown from the live CD. Maybe you missed it.

I booted from CD again, pressed F6 (Kernel Options), then selected No Local APIC from the menu. After selecting Shutdown from the menu, the PC powered down completely and did not restart. Because all this was from a live CD, there were no saved system logs.

What I left out is that the CD ejected cleanly, gave me the message to remove the CD and press Enter. I did, and the machine shut down normally.

Hi,
I also got clean shutdowns in that P4 when removing "acpi=on", or replacing it with "noacpi", yet it is no a satisfaction because if a new comer gets directly the reboot problem in one or the only one machine he has he might be disgusted at first try. But if he meets with it after he changes kernel (which we know to not be automatic), then he can be advised to try other options. By the time this happens we may have found a fix, or a new kernel with which we won't get the problem.

I'll try ongoto's idea, but I am yet to be convinced. The timestamp problem is usually over after the next day after install, so I don't know how the reboots would still continue in the P4 where the versionsx Openbox full, Openbox full Fr, Edu and Edu Fr still shutdown after reboot with the kernels of the 2.6.38 series.

Regards,
Mélodie