Author Topic: [SOLVED] Puzzled after kernel update  (Read 3287 times)

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2011, 02:12:27 PM »
All done but why can't I post my results... is there a problem with the server? ???

Not sure what you mean. I'm posting and it shows up on the forum, as did your last post quoted above.  ???
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Offline wharfhouse

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2011, 02:15:13 PM »
No... it won't let me post the text for some reason  ???

Short messages like this seems to work OK.  Is it because there's too much text? What now?  Do you want me to post it in bits?

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2011, 02:23:11 PM »
No... it won't let me post the text for some reason  ???

Short messages like this seems to work OK.  Is it because there's too much text? What now?  Do you want me to post it in bits?

If you are trying to post the entire text output for the process, that is not necessary. What I want to know is whether the update seems to have succeeded, or if there was a failure, the exact error message.
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Offline wharfhouse

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2011, 02:29:03 PM »
Righto... didn't get any error messages... see for yourself... just posting the important bits (see if this works!):

Quote
[root@localhost /]# apt-get update
Get:1 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010 release [2084B]
Fetched 2084B in 0s (8914B/s)
Get:1 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main pkglist [2360kB]
Get:2 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main release [142B]
Get:3 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates pkglist [1099kB]         
Get:4 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates release [145B]                                                             
Get:5 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/nonfree pkglist [62.7kB]                                                           
Get:6 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/nonfree release [144B]                                                             
Get:7 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/games pkglist [38.6kB]                                                             
Get:8 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/games release [141B]                                                               
Get:9 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/kde4 pkglist [179kB]                                                               
Get:10 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/kde4 release [141B]                                                               
Fetched 3740kB in 10s (342kB/s)                                                                                             
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
[root@localhost /]# apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Calculating Upgrade... Done
The following packages will be upgraded
  cronie curl firefox grep libcurl4 libnspr4 x11-driver-input-fpit x11-driver-input-hyperpen x11-driver-input-mutouch
  x11-driver-input-penmount x11-driver-input-synaptics xautomation
12 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 16.5MB of archives.
After unpacking 24.5MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Get:1 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main grep 2.9-1pclos2011 [304kB]
Get:2 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates cronie 1.4.7-2pclos2011 [77.2kB]
Get:3 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates curl 7.21.7-1pclos2011 [109kB]
Get:4 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates libcurl4 7.21.7-1pclos2011 [193kB]
Get:5 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates firefox 5.0-5pclos2011 [15.5MB]
Get:6 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/updates libnspr4 4.8.8-1pclos2011 [126kB]                                           
Get:7 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main x11-driver-input-fpit 1.4.0-1pclos2011 [12.4kB]                               
Get:8 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main x11-driver-input-hyperpen 1.4.0-1pclos2011 [12.2kB]                           
Get:9 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main x11-driver-input-mutouch 1.3.0-1pclos2011 [12.8kB]                             
Get:10 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main x11-driver-input-penmount 1.5.0-1pclos2011 [11.3kB]                           
Get:11 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main x11-driver-input-synaptics 1.4.1-2pclos2011 [53.6kB]                         
Get:12 http://ftp.vim.org pclinuxos/2010/main xautomation 1.03-2pclos2011 [43.1kB]                                         
Fetched 16.5MB in 54s (303kB/s)                                                                                             
Committing changes...
Preparing                                ############################## [100%]
Updating / installing
  libcurl4-7.21.7-1pclos2011.i586        ############################## [100%]
  curl-7.21.7-1pclos2011.i586            ############################## [100%]
  xautomation-1.03-2pclos2011.i586       ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-synaptics-1.4.1-2pclo ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-penmount-1.5.0-1pclos ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-mutouch-1.3.0-1pclos2 ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-hyperpen-1.4.0-1pclos ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-fpit-1.4.0-1pclos2011 ############################## [100%]
  libnspr4-4.8.8-1pclos2011.i586         ############################## [100%]
  firefox-5.0-5pclos2011.i586            ############################## [100%]
  cronie-1.4.7-2pclos2011.i586           ############################## [100%]
  grep-2.9-1pclos2011.i586               ############################## [100%]
Cleaning up / removing
  libnspr4-4.8.7-1pclos2011.i586         ############################## [100%]
  libcurl4-7.21.6-1pclos2011.i586        ############################## [100%]
  grep-2.8-1pclos2011.i586               ############################## [100%]
  cronie-1.4.7-1pclos2011.i586           ############################## [100%]
  curl-7.21.6-1pclos2011.i586            ############################## [100%]
  firefox-4.0.1-2pclos2011.i586          ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-fpit-1.3.99-2pclos201 ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-hyperpen-1.3.99-2pclo ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-mutouch-1.2.99-2pclos ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-penmount-1.4.99-2pclo ############################## [100%]
  x11-driver-input-synaptics-1.4.0-5pclo ############################## [100%]
  xautomation-1.03-1pclos2010.i586       ############################## [100%]
Done.
[root@localhost /]#


Yea! I think we're in business... It's allowed me to preview whereas before it wouldn't as also it wouldn't post.  I guess there must be a maximum size to posting.  OK... over to you...

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2011, 02:40:01 PM »
wharfhouse:

All looks good. Your installed system should now be completely up to date. If any problems persist. it shouldn't be for lack of a complete upgrade.

Now, still from the chroot environment;

[root@localhost /]# ls -l /boot |grep vm             <Enter>

and;

[root@localhost /]# ls -l /boot |grep init             <Enter>

Post results for both. I want to see which kernels are present and which is the current default.
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Offline wharfhouse

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2011, 02:49:11 PM »
OK, here we go:

Quote
[root@localhost /]# ls -l /boot |grep vm
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       27 Jun 21 21:26 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  2059312 Oct 22  2010 vmlinuz-2.6.33.7-pclos6.bfs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  2330784 Jun  4 09:14 vmlinuz-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs
[root@localhost /]# ls -l /boot |grep init
-rw------- 1 root root 11464387 Jun 23 21:54 initrd-2.6.33.7-pclos6.bfs.img
-rw------- 1 root root 13824206 Jun 23 21:55 initrd-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs.img
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       30 Jun 21 21:26 initrd.img -> initrd-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs.img
[root@localhost /]#

The coloured version.  Hey! have you read your tribute in this months mag by ms_neme... she likes your use of colour!  ;D

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2011, 03:28:48 PM »
OK, here we go:

Quote
[root@localhost /]# ls -l /boot |grep vm
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       27 Jun 21 21:26 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  2059312 Oct 22  2010 vmlinuz-2.6.33.7-pclos6.bfs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  2330784 Jun  4 09:14 vmlinuz-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs
[root@localhost /]# ls -l /boot |grep init
-rw------- 1 root root 11464387 Jun 23 21:54 initrd-2.6.33.7-pclos6.bfs.img
-rw------- 1 root root 13824206 Jun 23 21:55 initrd-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs.img
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       30 Jun 21 21:26 initrd.img -> initrd-2.6.38.8-pclos1.bfs.img
[root@localhost /]#

The coloured version.  Hey! have you read your tribute in this months mag by ms_neme... she likes your use of colour! ;D

I've d/l-ed the mag, but haven't read it yet. ;D

The new kernel is the current default, so we're back to the problem of setting up the display to use the nouveau driver. Still in the chroot environment;

[root@localhost /]# XFdrake                     <Enter>

Using the arrow and tab keys to navigate, and the space bar and Enter keys to select and execute, first choose your proper monitor, then select the proper graphics card. Do not choose to use the proprietary driver when asked. Last set the resolution you wish.

There being no test function presently available, without actually doing the full process on my backup machine, I'm unsure  whether the nv or nouveau driver will be chosen, but when you get the screen to accept the settings it should say either nv or nouveau. If it is nv, go ahead and accept it anyway, then we can edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to change it to nouveau, if it doesn't work when rebooting to the installed system. Do try a reboot to the installed system, whichever driver is first selected by XFdrake.

My backup computer with the GeForce4 MX did not work with the nVidia 96.xx.xx driver, even though it was supposed to, and was still available, before the upgrades. It did work well with the nv driver, but without 3D. The nouveau driver is supposed to be able to provide 3D to that card, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 03:35:00 PM by old-polack »
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Offline wharfhouse

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2011, 03:45:00 PM »
OK...

Done that.  The output showed what is already configured but I chose the same stuff again just in case.  Here is the output:
Quote
Keep the changes?       The current configuration is:       
                               │
                          │                                                                     │
                          │  Disable Ctrl-Alt-Backspace: no                                     │
                          │  3D hardware acceleration: no                                       │
                          │  Keyboard layout: us                                                │
                          │  Mouse type:                                                        │
                          │  Monitor: Belinea 10 40 10                                          │
                          │  Monitor HorizSync: 30.0-54.0                                       │
                          │  Monitor VertRefresh: 50.0-120.0                                    │
                          │  Graphics card: nVidia Corporation NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX to GeForce 4 │
                          │  Color depth: 16 million colors (24 bits)                           │
                          │  Resolution: 1024x768 24bpp                                         │
                          │  Xorg driver: nouveau           

Notice it's put the nouveau driver in.  I need to change keyboard layout to UK and turn on 3D acceleration... but I can do that later.

It wants me to reboot so we'll see what happens.  It getting late for me now and I'm getting tired.  I'll post back in the morning at work.  See you then.

Thanks for all your help!
 ;)

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2011, 03:47:11 PM »
OK...

Done that.  The output showed what is already configured but I chose the same stuff again just in case.  Here is the output:
Quote
Keep the changes?       The current configuration is:       
                               │
                          │                                                                     │
                          │  Disable Ctrl-Alt-Backspace: no                                     │
                          │  3D hardware acceleration: no                                       │
                          │  Keyboard layout: us                                                │
                          │  Mouse type:                                                        │
                          │  Monitor: Belinea 10 40 10                                          │
                          │  Monitor HorizSync: 30.0-54.0                                       │
                          │  Monitor VertRefresh: 50.0-120.0                                    │
                          │  Graphics card: nVidia Corporation NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX to GeForce 4 │
                          │  Color depth: 16 million colors (24 bits)                           │
                          │  Resolution: 1024x768 24bpp                                         │
                          │  Xorg driver: nouveau           

Notice it's put the nouveau driver in.  I need to change keyboard layout to UK and turn on 3D acceleration... but I can do that later.

It wants me to reboot so we'll see what happens.  It getting late for me now and I'm getting tired.  I'll post back in the morning at work.  See you then.

Thanks for all your help!
 ;)

Tomorrow, then.  :D
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Offline wharfhouse

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2011, 06:02:47 AM »
Well O-P, everything they say about you is true!  YOU ARE THE MAN  ;D

I've got my beautiful desktop back again complete with all it's bells & whistles ;D ;D ;D

HOWEVER, loads of loose ends to tie up before I mark this this thread as solved.  In ascending order of importance:

1)  I found there was no need to reset the keyboard or switch 3D back on... it had already been done so I don't know why it wasn't shown in the output displayed above, or is it because I went in as a 'user' rather than 'root', 'though I would have thought these settings should be global.

2)  The boot process has become visually "clunky".  I read a post from Texstar somewhere about adding a bit of text to the boot stanza in menu.lst to make it smoother, or is this for something else, or is this a consequence of the new "nouveau" driver being loaded?

3)  After I logged off last night I spent another half hour booting and rebooting all the Grub entries to give the system a good shakedown, with the following results.  If I can refer you to my post #4 on page 1:
i/ first & last boot stanzas on menu.lst boot yet the text in the stanzas are different.  Is this significant?  Presumably they are both the same new kernel.  Do I need both?
ii/ second boot stanza (non-framebuffer) doesn't display at all in the Grub screen for some reason... perhaps it's not important.
iii/ third boot stanza (failsafe) won't boot at all, nor will the fifth boot stanza - the old kernel.  Perhaps they're not important any more as long as the new one works.  Can I/should I uninstall them via Synaptic?

Looking forward to receiving your comments.

;)

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2011, 12:29:45 PM »
Well O-P, everything they say about you is true!  YOU ARE THE MAN  ;D

I've got my beautiful desktop back again complete with all it's bells & whistles ;D ;D ;D

HOWEVER, loads of loose ends to tie up before I mark this this thread as solved.  In ascending order of importance:

1)  I found there was no need to reset the keyboard or switch 3D back on... it had already been done so I don't know why it wasn't shown in the output displayed above, or is it because I went in as a 'user' rather than 'root', 'though I would have thought these settings should be global.

3D effects and 3D hardware acceleration are not the same thing. You can have 3D effects without 3D hardware acceleration.

Quote
2)  The boot process has become visually "clunky".  I read a post from Texstar somewhere about adding a bit of text to the boot stanza in menu.lst to make it smoother, or is this for something else, or is this a consequence of the new "nouveau" driver being loaded?

"clunky" is not a very precise description of what you are seeing.  ;D

Quote
3)  After I logged off last night I spent another half hour booting and rebooting all the Grub entries to give the system a good shakedown, with the following results.  If I can refer you to my post #4 on page 1:
i/ first & last boot stanzas on menu.lst boot yet the text in the stanzas are different.  Is this significant?  Presumably they are both the same new kernel.  Do I need both?

Yes. The first stanza will always point to the current default kernel, whereas the stanza at the bottom will always point to that exact kernel.

When you add another new kernel, the first stanza will then point to it, and another stanza will be added at the bottom of the list naming the new kernel specifically, again, for future use when yet another kernel may be added.

Quote
ii/ second boot stanza (non-framebuffer) doesn't display at all in the Grub screen for some reason... perhaps it's not important.
iii/ third boot stanza (failsafe) won't boot at all, nor will the fifth boot stanza - the old kernel.  Perhaps they're not important any more as long as the new one works.  Can I/should I uninstall them via Synaptic?

Looking forward to receiving your comments.

;)

For whatever reason, I've never had the second stanza produce a boot menu entry either. I don't know why it's there if it isn't going to be used.

The failsafe stanza should boot to a command line only. It also uses the current default kernel.

If you do an uninstall of an old kernel through Synaptic, the specific named stanza should also be removed. As long as you have any kernel still installed you should never manually remove the menu.lst stanza that specifically names it. It is your backup means to boot to that specific kernel.

What you are asking to do is akin to saying, "I always use the brake pedal in my car, so can I remove the emergency brake?"

The answer is, "Yes you can, but when the brake pedal fails, you'll certainly wish you hadn't."
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 12:33:57 PM by old-polack »
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Offline wharfhouse

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2011, 04:04:52 PM »
Hi O-P!

Quote
3D effects and 3D hardware acceleration are not the same thing. You can have 3D effects without 3D hardware acceleration.

Got both!  ;D

I uninstalled the old kernel and as you say, it cleaned up the Grub screen.  So really we're down to the six million dollar question... looking back over the whole thread... what do you think was the original cause of all this... bad download?  Suppose that can be attributed to just bad luck.  Driver package then not quite sorted out for Nvidia cards (it clearly is now ;D)?  Why I'm asking is I really don't want to suddenly find this could inadvertently happen again at some point in the future when, after all, we're supposed to regularly update through Synaptic.  On that note I presume it would be good advice to keep a record of the your chroot procedure in the event of a failed download and everything goes fluffy pillows up ;)  ('fluffy pillows'? that's not what I typed!  Is this censored? :D)

I look forward to your comments but for now I'll sign this off as SOLVED!

Online Old-Polack

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Re: Puzzled after kernel update
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2011, 04:59:22 PM »
Hi O-P!

Quote
3D effects and 3D hardware acceleration are not the same thing. You can have 3D effects without 3D hardware acceleration.

Got both!  ;D

I uninstalled the old kernel and as you say, it cleaned up the Grub screen.  So really we're down to the six million dollar question... looking back over the whole thread... what do you think was the original cause of all this... bad download?  Suppose that can be attributed to just bad luck.  Driver package then not quite sorted out for Nvidia cards (it clearly is now ;D)?  Why I'm asking is I really don't want to suddenly find this could inadvertently happen again at some point in the future when, after all, we're supposed to regularly update through Synaptic.  On that note I presume it would be good advice to keep a record of the your chroot procedure in the event of a failed download and everything goes fluffy pillows up ;)  ('fluffy pillows'? that's not what I typed!  Is this censored? :D)

I look forward to your comments but for now I'll sign this off as SOLVED!

The original cause? nVidia didn't upgrade the driver for your card, to work with the new X server, so a substitute had to be found. It happens whenever hardware gets old enough that the manufacturer deems it obsolete. I have boxes full of parts that are perfectly usable, but currently unsupported. I keep them in the hopes that an open source solution will be found, but usually the parts age until there is no good way left to connect them to a modern computer.

The day comes when one must bite the bullet and acquire newer hardware. We can't keep our cars running forever, though I drove the same van for 24 years. I finally got a newer one two years ago, because I could no longer keep the heater and air conditioning working in the old one... (parts no longer available... new or used) The same thing goes for computers, except they become obsolete even quicker. You may be able to scrounge up a usable part that fits, only to discover there are no longer drivers that allow full functionality. You have to choose between reduced performance or newer parts that are still fully supported.

I've reached the point where I consider the motherboard, RAM CPU and graphics card a unit of sorts. When one goes out, I replace everything, as it's usually cheaper and less time consuming than trying to locate a usable single part replacement. If the graphics card in question is a PCI-e card, it still has many good quality compatible cards to choose from. If the motherboard has an AGP slot, especially an older one, (2x-4x) chances of finding a quality replacement card that both fits, and is still currently supported, get pretty slim.
Old-Polack

Of what use be there for joy, if not for the sharing thereof?



Lest we forget...