PCLinuxOS Openbox Bonsai 2011 for test

[djohnston]

Hootie,

nss and glibnetworking = no ssl : Do you need ssl in any kind of install ? ie : a file server at home ?

glib-networking  --  for web pages using SSL (for example, https://ssl.scroogle.org)

[melodie]

Melodie,

If the iso does all of the basics without python, I don't think it is absolutely necessary, but I am sure anyone extending it will very quickly be pulling in python from dependencies. The major requirements to me is that 1. there is a fully working, simple desktop, 2. all the hardware capabilities of PCLinuxOS are included, especially networking, 3. the Control Center tools should have all requirements met, and finally, 4. all packages in the repo should be able to install without missing dependencies, like task-KDE, task-lxde, etc.

If python is required for any of these, then it should be included.

Galen

Hi Galen,

* the desktop looks to me like it meets your requirement;

* the networking capabilities are met in Bonsai under the condition you do not need a proprietary driver at once when you install. I have been surprised on my new laptop : a IBM thinkpad T60 that I ordered recently and received a few days ago : PCLinuxOS connects to wifi without anything else than the wep key. The driver is ath5k : out of the box !

* PCC, the control center is there; (drakconf)

* Synaptic is there;

* The sources.lst is up to date and generally default configured on http://ftp.nluug.nl/... which I consider being one of the best mirrors, so any of the packages from the repos should be available normally, task-* or else;

I would like to add one more requirement which I consider is the main goal of this version : that anyone can make his own version on top of it, without trouble. This is possible with the official, by stripping... I would like to be sure nothing bothers for this purpose with Bonsai, without having much to strip, which is why I try to keep it low in size, and without a risk of breaking either... it must be as stable as the official release, obviously.

Each time you will affect it to a new purpose (making a web server, making a multimedia studio, or a version dedicated to games, or to enterprise... ) you will have to add some packages, and each time it will be a different set of packages : therefore you can surely appreciate to get a version on which you have very few packages to remove before reaching your goal. One more advantage is that when you will update it prior to adding packages, the update will be much faster.

As I said before somewhere else, you could do it out of the etjr's last cli.iso : but all the weeks we worked together last year on the first test thread have shown that it's not so easy, as we have met with many issues that we have fixed as we were going. I must however admit that I didn't take the time to test his second and his third cli.iso. I had at that time sent a summary of some of the problems met and he might have done some corrections (particularly the useradd script that was missing and some related directories in the system).

Else, you are one of the eldest testers of the Bonsai project, with Jeff who also follows this closely. Do you think we need to have a poll about bonsai staying an enhanced cli.iso/ or becoming a Mini with extended capabilities ? I feel like I often meet with cases where people think it should work directly as they want it to...

[Taco.22]

I had a look at Hootiegibbon's list of missing bits - python, M4 etc, and checked them against what was in my system.  All present and correct!  I then had a look at the live cd and no, they weren't there.  That in itself is not a problem.  The initial install had worked fine - those extraneous bits had been pulled in as new software required them.  The basic Bonsai system didn't need them, so why put them in.  I agree with Melodie here.  OB Bonsai is a basic platform on which you can build your own system.  It is not an out-of-the-box (no pun intended - although that is food for thought!!) fully equipped system.  If you want that then go the full OB, or any one of a number of alternatives.  It is a  raft that allows you to develop any structure you want, but with the basic underpinings of PCLinuxOS.  It is way easier to add than to subtract.  What you don't want probably isn't there - what you want probably installs itself as you need it without you even being aware of it.  Dependencies can be a curse, but also a joy.  Bonsai is not for the typical computer user - it is for those who wish to fiddle, build, alter, break and then try to fix said system.  And usually in the process of unleashing their new, improved, once-in-a-lifetime offer of something really great .

[I'll let you all know know when Blackcat finally hits the stands .  Once I rebuild it, again!!]  

But hey, that's what it's all about.  Cutting edge, do-it-yourself, why-hasn't-someone-done-this-before opportunity.  That's Linux - try that in any other OS!  Thank you Melodie for doing the hard work - I know what it is like pulling down a system and I am more than happy to follow the footsteps of someone who has done the job.  Why reinvent the wheel - my (our) job is to put more wheels on it.  And maybe make it go in a different direction.  Or whatever!  You get the idea .  The good thing is that if it breaks down we have excellent roadside service!

KISS principle - Keep it Simple,  Keep it Small.  

The way I like it.  But don't get me started .    

          

[melodie]

Thank you Melodie for doing the hard work - I know what it is like pulling down a system and I am more than happy to follow the footsteps of someone who has done the job.

Thank you very much Taco.22 ! I read from some users they like your Astronomy version very much too (I don't know much about astronomy unfortunately and even less about the related software, but the look is very nice and I will show it with pleasure with anyone around me willing to get it !)

I want to take this opportunity to tell all that I also thank etrj a lot for his great job in providing the cli.iso : I would not be able to do it, although I would be very willing to learn !

Regards,
Mélodie

[Dragynn]

I had a look at Hootiegibbon's list of missing bits - python, M4 etc, and checked them against what was in my system.  All present and correct!  I then had a look at the live cd and no, they weren't there.  That in itself is not a problem.  The initial install had worked fine - those extraneous bits had been pulled in as new software required them.  The basic Bonsai system didn't need them, so why put them in.  I agree with Melodie here.  OB Bonsai is a basic platform on which you can build your own system.  It is not an out-of-the-box (no pun intended - although that is food for thought!!) fully equipped system.  If you want that then go the full OB, or any one of a number of alternatives.  It is a  raft that allows you to develop any structure you want, but with the basic underpinings of PCLinuxOS.  It is way easier to add than to subtract.  What you don't want probably isn't there - what you want probably installs itself as you need it without you even being aware of it.  Dependencies can be a curse, but also a joy.  Bonsai is not for the typical computer user - it is for those who wish to fiddle, build, alter, break and then try to fix said system.  And usually in the process of unleashing their new, improved, once-in-a-lifetime offer of something really great .

[I'll let you all know know when Blackcat finally hits the stands .  Once I rebuild it, again!!]  

But hey, that's what it's all about.  Cutting edge, do-it-yourself, why-hasn't-someone-done-this-before opportunity.  That's Linux - try that in any other OS!  Thank you Melodie for doing the hard work - I know what it is like pulling down a system and I am more than happy to follow the footsteps of someone who has done the job.  Why reinvent the wheel - my (our) job is to put more wheels on it.  And maybe make it go in a different direction.  Or whatever!  You get the idea .  The good thing is that if it breaks down we have excellent roadside service!

KISS principle - Keep it Simple,  Keep it Small.  

The way I like it.  But don't get me started .    

          

+100 

[Hootiegibbon]

Ok where to start!

Melody,

I also build -light from etjr's iso text iso, it does not suffer from the issues you seen to have (python is intact ).

Python is required by ~1/3 of the applications in the repositiory(or are touched by  dependency that require it), that is why Texstar puts off updateing Python until it starts to get "old" then has to under take the entire repo rebuild, I am sure that IF python where extraneous to the base of PCLiniuxOS that Texstar would have removed it by now himself...

If python has been removed early on then a lot of apps that call for it duing set up would not be able to write the correct INITIAL configurations etc and use alternatives that may not work as well as they should without digging deep an d rewriting the config files (after finding out which has been effcted......

With python being missing it means that the "update alternatives" app will throw in some pretty odd and sometimes large apps to satisfy dependencies (like blue griffin as a requirement for thunderbird....)

It also mean that if Texstar has to change the way that dependencies are matched or met within the 'jungle' of python dependent applications could leave a user of Bonsai out in the cold with a broken install.

Microcode

Search in synaptic for ucode - it will pick out the microcode required for centrino chipsets (centrino was designed to be a combo of cpu/integrated wireless setup)

Licences,

When the image application is launched its opens a box with words to the effect "licence not found" if it comes with a licence then the chances are it is a requirement of redistribution for it to be available (even with gpl apps)

SSL

If a user wants to go to a https:// or similar then yes its required

Small iso / Light iso

Small does not always equate to light,  you can add liberaries of all sorts, that will only be iused if needed, but if they are not there and a function require them  ( the biggest failing of the (former PCLinuxOS)***** project (and one of the resaons I removed myself from it) was the self imposed limit of iso size, all this does is limit the usfulness of an iso especially where behemoth applictions like python are requirements...

Its is a good idea - to have a personal iso build base , but by not including PCLinuxOS biggest Building Block I suspect that at somepoint during an update it will ultimatly fail leaving the user with a dead install.. which is clearly what no one wants as it does the end user a disservice and puts the name/reputation of PCLInuxOS as a whole at risk.

Jase






 

 

[melodie]

Ok where to start!

Melody,

I also build -light from etjr's iso text iso, it does not suffer from the issues you seen to have (python is intact ).

Jase,
Python is installed fully in Openbox full, Openbox Education (work almost ready, misses just a piece of the theme), PCLinuxOS Astronomy, and all of them do meet with the same issue which happens only on certain category of machines, and only with the latest 2.6.38.8.pclos* kernel. (Here bfs, and didn't test the other variants of this version).

I have found the fix. I have told what fix I have found. I still have tests to do, but this is very promising.

I am sorry I didn't have the possibility to bring back the messages from dmesg messages and so on as you have asked on the other thread, because at that moment I could not have the connection on that machine. The connection is now fixed, (after a month waiting for the ISP to decide to send someone !) but in the meanwhile I have found a way to get the shutown working normally with our latest kernel. Now I'm stucked not because of a shutdown that does not shutdown anymore, but because about the "nouveau" graphic driver which bothers me, as well in the Bonsai version as in the PCLinuxOS Edu versions which _does_have_python_installed_in_it.

I will check the licence problem. I guess it was once in /usr/share/docs ?

Small does not always equate to light

agreed. My goal is to keep it small. The testers and the users also asked for it to be light : last year while we were building it together.

ucode : 7 packages of mostly non-free firmwares for wifi (only one of them is in main). That makes 3347kB installed. Each user needs only one of theses when he needs it. Some machines don't require any, and most machines can connect with Ethernet. The people who have wifi only might as well choose a Openbox full, or a Iced-Latte, or one of the other excellent Mini provided by the other members of the community. Or grab a Bonsai, add what they will to it and if they wish, remaster it...

Bonsai does not mean just small. It does not mean light. It means small and constructed with lots of care, just like a bonsai is. This is why I have adopted LKJ's idea for the name. Bonsai is mostly build following the remarks that the people have brought so far : the users, and the long time testers, I mean the forum members who tested version after version regularly and helped improve and debug it.

I'll be back with more news when I will have re-installed Bonsai on a pair of machines and done additional checks and tests.

Regards,
Mélodie

PS: Hi Dragynn ! o/

[Yankee]

Bonsai does not mean just small. It does not mean light. It means small and constructed with lots of care, just like a bonsai is. This is why I have adopted LKJ's idea for the name. Bonsai is mostly build following the remarks that the people have brought so far : the users, and the long time testers, I mean the forum members who tested version after version regularly and helped improve and debug it.

Melodie,

You know I use Bonsai as a Rescue Flash Drive so it only includes a couple of backup
programs and the systeminfo package from the repo.   I'd run those from CLI if possible
but Bonsai is quite convenient.   A ClI with a Window Manager or a full mini version - I'll
leave that entirely up to you.

Also, the default fonts are missing parts of their letters on my machine.   Switched to
"Fixed" or something "Liberation" and they were OK.  Slightly thicker fonts are better
on my machine.

Anxiously waiting for the next test iso then. 

Have a good one.

[melodie]

Also, the default fonts are missing parts of their letters on my machine.   Switched to
"Fixed" or something "Liberation" and they were OK.  Slightly thicker fonts are better
on my machine.

Anxiously waiting for the next test iso then.  

Have a good one.

Hi,
I will look for a package with fonts that would not take too much space. Liberation is a nice set.

I look into Synaptic... what about Junicode ?

Else, if you have seen the post where I explained a change I want to make, in order to get rid of the Hal commands... This way even if hal happens to hang that would have no effect on the ability to shutdown/reboot even after one of your backups...

You might want to try one of theses gui frontends to rsync... Or even rsync with options in a console. I just did a few "rsync -r source destination" from one machine to another to get a full copy on a new machine, that was more easy than I would have thought first.

... have a good one too.

[djohnston]

aptupdate fails

Melodie,

This is the result of doing full updates and then running aptupgrade on two different boxes, one an AMD Duron, the other a Pentium3. Results were the same.

Procedure:

1. Install OpenBox Bonsai test version
2. Open Synaptic and do a full update (Reload, Mark All Upgrades, Apply)
3. Kernel was left as is, sources.list was left as is
4. Ran aptupgrade from a terminal on the second box so I could see the messages

Aptupgrade not yet installed.



Aptupgrade installed from Synaptic, but not yet run.



Verified current apt-get version, then did the apt-get verifications.

Code: [Select]

[root@localhost ~]# apt-get --version
apt 0.5.15lorg3.94a for linux i386 compiled on Nov 11 2008 09:16:03
Supported Modules:
*Ver: Standard .rpm
*Pkg:  rpm interface (Priority 20)
 S.L: 'rpm' Standard RPM binary tree
 S.L: 'rpm-src' Standard RPM source tree
 S.L: 'rpm-dir' Local RPM directory tree
 S.L: 'rpm-src-dir' Local SRPM directory tree
 S.L: 'repomd' RepoMD tree
 S.L: 'repomd-src' RepoMD src tree
 Idx: RPM Source Index
 Idx: RPM Package Index
 Idx: RPM Database
[root@localhost ~]# apt-get clean
[root@localhost ~]# apt-get update
Get:1 http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010 release [1892B]
Fetched 1892B in 0s (3632B/s)
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/main pkglist
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/main release
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/updates pkglist
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/updates release
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/nonfree pkglist
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/nonfree release
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/games pkglist
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/games release
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/kde4 pkglist
Hit http://ftp.nluug.nl pclinuxos/2010/kde4 release
Reading Package Lists... Done                   
Building Dependency Tree... Done
[root@localhost ~]# apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Calculating Upgrade... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded.
[root@localhost ~]#
Ran aptupgrade from terminal as normal user.



Answered the prompt.



The "aptupgrade completed" window came up, but disappeared before I could get a screenshot. The terminal error messages are shown below.

Code: [Select]

[darrel@localhost ~]$ aptupgrade &
[1] 2479
[darrel@localhost ~]$ 0
error: Failed dependencies:
liblua.so.5.1 is needed by librpm1-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libnss3.so is needed by librpm1-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libnssutil3.so is needed by librpm1-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libsmime3.so is needed by librpm1-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libsoftokn3.so is needed by librpm1-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libssl3.so is needed by librpm1-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
error: Failed dependencies:
librpm1 = 4.8.1-4pclos2011 is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
liblua.so.5.1 is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libnss3.so is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libnssutil3.so is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
librpmbuild.so.1 is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
librpmio.so.1 is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
librpm.so.1 is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libsmime3.so is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libsoftokn3.so is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libssl3.so is needed by rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
Preparing...                ########################################### [100%]
   1:rpm-pclinuxos-setup    ########################################### [100%]
error: Failed dependencies:
liblua.so.5.1 is needed by libapt-pkg0-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
librpmio.so.1 is needed by libapt-pkg0-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
librpm.so.1 is needed by libapt-pkg0-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
rpmlib(PayloadIsLzma) <= 4.4.6-1 is needed by libapt-pkg0-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
librpm1 >= 4.8.1 is needed by apt-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
rpm >= 4.8.1 is needed by apt-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
librpmio.so.1 is needed by apt-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
librpm.so.1 is needed by apt-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
rpmlib(PayloadIsLzma) <= 4.4.6-1 is needed by apt-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
rpmlib(PayloadIsLzma) <= 4.4.6-1 is needed by apt-common-0.5.15lorg3.95-3pclos2011.i586
error: Failed dependencies:
apt >= 0.5.15lorg3.95 is needed by synaptic-0.57.2-23pclos2011.i586
apt-common >= 0.5.15lorg3.95 is needed by synaptic-0.57.2-23pclos2011.i586
libapt-pkg0 >= 0.5.15lorg3.95 is needed by synaptic-0.57.2-23pclos2011.i586
rpmlib(PayloadIsLzma) <= 4.4.6-1 is needed by synaptic-0.57.2-23pclos2011.i586
error: Failed dependencies:
python is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
rpm = 4.8.1-4pclos2011 is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
python-base >= 2.6 is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
liblua.so.5.1 is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libnss3.so is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libnssutil3.so is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
librpmbuild.so.1 is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
librpmio.so.1 is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
librpm.so.1 is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libsmime3.so is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libsoftokn3.so is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586
libssl3.so is needed by python-rpm-4.8.1-4pclos2011.i586

The final result, after a reboot, was apt-get still at version apt 0.5.15lorg3.94a. Should be at version apt 0.5.15lorg3.95, as shown below.

Code: [Select]

[root@AMD64 ~]# apt-get --version
apt 0.5.15lorg3.95 for linux i386 compiled on Jun 10 2011 19:24:14
Supported Modules:
*Ver: Standard .rpm
*Pkg:  rpm interface (Priority 20)
 S.L: 'rpm' Standard RPM binary tree
 S.L: 'rpm-src' Standard RPM source tree
 S.L: 'rpm-dir' Local RPM directory tree
 S.L: 'rpm-src-dir' Local SRPM directory tree
 S.L: 'repomd' RepoMD tree
 S.L: 'repomd-src' RepoMD src tree
 Idx: RPM Source Index
 Idx: RPM Package Index
 Idx: RPM Database
[root@AMD64 ~]#

[melodie]

Hi djohnston,

I will take a close look to that next, and will correct it to put the new apt chain in. Thanks for your report.
Regards,
Mélodie

[Yankee]

Hi,
I will look for a package with fonts that would not take too much space. Liberation is a nice set.

I look into Synaptic... what about Junicode ?

Else, if you have seen the post where I explained a change I want to make, in order to get rid of the Hal commands... This way even if hal happens to hang that would have no effect on the ability to shutdown/reboot even after one of your backups...

You might want to try one of theses gui frontends to rsync... Or even rsync with options in a console. I just did a few "rsync -r source destination" from one machine to another to get a full copy on a new machine, that was more easy than I would have thought first.

... have a good one too.

Hi,

I made the fonts affected "bold" and they look better then.   The notification popup looks fine as is.

I searched for a recent post regarding HAL by you but couldn't find one.  But a solid fix is great news.

I have LuckyBackup(rsync GuI) but haven't had a chance to use it yet.  Has all the options.


Thanks for the response.

[melodie]

I searched for a recent post regarding HAL by you but couldn't find one.  But a solid fix is great news.

Thanks for the response.

Hi, this one : http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,93031.msg783153.html#msg783153

Welcome.

Regards,
Mélodie

[Yankee]

Hi,

* I would like you to try this new menu.xml, to place in your /home/user/.config/openbox directory in replacement for the one you already have:

code removed...

* Then reload openbox (in menu, or in console "openbox --reconfigure";

* Logout;

* click on GDM gui on "configure", type root password, go the the section : "General", at "Default session" change it for Openbox. (Instead of start Xscript client).

* Login again;

* Now try shutdown again.

Thanks.

Hi,

I replaced the menu.xml with the above new file, all 58 lines of it, and...

Shutdown and Reboot do not work at all, but Logout works all the way thru to the end OK.

If Shutdown and Reboot could be activated again.    This is all with light usage today.

This weekend I'll spend several hours doing backups and really test it in the fire, you know.
Once after the backups and again after the large file transfers, as before.   I can wait to do
those until we get Shutdown and Reboot back on again to test.   Probably should.

FF

[MrBill]

I also tried replacing the openbox/menu.xml.  Same problem reported above--shutdown and reboot do not work from ob menu.  In my case shutdown from GDM login screen was not reliable.  Worked once or twice, did not work once or twice.

But do I understand that melodie may have found the fix from examining the kde shutdown script?