Author Topic: [SOLVED] Need a new PC. Should I run Win7 in Virtualbox or use a dual boot?  (Read 3350 times)

Offline Just17

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Re: Need a new PC. Should I run Win7 in Virtualbox or use a dual boot?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 03:46:49 PM »

Before you go skipping away, let me offer this caveat: if you install PCLinuxOS first and then decide to install Windows 7 in a dual boot system later, you will need to start from scratch, i.e. format the hard drive and reinstall both OSs, starting with Win7.

And, if you do go this route, the simplest approach would be to run mylivecd before wiping, install WIN and re-install PCLOS from your custom LiveCD...that will save you from having to re-configure / update / etc.


Not if Win7 gets it own HDD as was the set up the user had prior to his Windows HDD breaking.
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Offline GoustiFruit

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Being able to dual boot is sometimes interesting if your main system crashes for some reason and you want to access your HDD for backup or anything. But you can simply keep a livecd just for this case.

Offline aguila

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I read different articles about Windows not playing nice in a dual boot environment.

Experienced it with Vista myself  >:(

And for repairing / backing up your Linux a live cd is for sure the better choice. So XP in Virtualbox might be the best playing option in this case.
All that is is good. PCLinuxOS is.

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Offline russell.eberhardt

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I read different articles about Windows not playing nice in a dual boot environment.
I have installed PC Linux dual boot with windows XP, Vista, and 7 with no problems so far.  The main problem seems to be with the automatic recovery system in Windows.


Quote
And for repairing / backing up your Linux a live cd is for sure the better choice. So XP in Virtualbox might be the best playing option in this case.
Agreed.

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Offline djohnston

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Re: Need a new PC. Should I run Win7 in Virtualbox or use a dual boot?
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2011, 12:59:16 PM »

Before you go skipping away, let me offer this caveat: if you install PCLinuxOS first and then decide to install Windows 7 in a dual boot system later, you will need to start from scratch, i.e. format the hard drive and reinstall both OSs, starting with Win7.

And, if you do go this route, the simplest approach would be to run mylivecd before wiping, install WIN and re-install PCLOS from your custom LiveCD...that will save you from having to re-configure / update / etc.


Not if Win7 gets it own HDD as was the set up the user had prior to his Windows HDD breaking.

The drive setup at time of installing PCLOS won't matter. When he goes to install, he's going to do drive partitioning and boot setup, anyway, as part of the installation process.
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Offline GermanTux

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I read different articles about Windows not playing nice in a dual boot environment.

Experienced it with Vista myself  >:(

And for repairing / backing up your Linux a live cd is for sure the better choice. So XP in Virtualbox might be the best playing option in this case.

Vista and Seven will not install unless they are installed on the hard drive that BIOS is set to boot to.  Another BS tactic from our friends at MS. 

Offline Just17

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Re: Need a new PC. Should I run Win7 in Virtualbox or use a dual boot?
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2011, 01:31:59 PM »

Before you go skipping away, let me offer this caveat: if you install PCLinuxOS first and then decide to install Windows 7 in a dual boot system later, you will need to start from scratch, i.e. format the hard drive and reinstall both OSs, starting with Win7.

And, if you do go this route, the simplest approach would be to run mylivecd before wiping, install WIN and re-install PCLOS from your custom LiveCD...that will save you from having to re-configure / update / etc.


Not if Win7 gets it own HDD as was the set up the user had prior to his Windows HDD breaking.

The drive setup at time of installing PCLOS won't matter. When he goes to install, he's going to do drive partitioning and boot setup, anyway, as part of the installation process.


Yes, and if it is on a different HDD to Win doing so will not interfere with Win.
Which as I understand it was the way he was set up previously.

So if two drives are being used the order of installation of Win and Lin is immaterial, so long as the OSs are installed to different HDDs.

regards.
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Offline ff103

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I vote for two hard drives, one for win and one for PCLOS.
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Offline mellon

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While waiting for my new PC I have been setting up WinXP in Virtualbox on my HP laptop to get used to it.
I was positively surprised how easy it was to set it up including installing the service packs. Current setup is such that I have one virtual hard disk of 32 GB split into three partitions; one for winxp os, one for applications and one for data. I added shared folders which also seem to support running applications apart from storing data. Not sure if running applications from a shared folder is a good idea though.
I probably will make a set up on ten new PC using three virtual hard disks; one for win7, one for the applications and one for the data with some shared folders pointing to physical partitions to be used as back-up folders. In case anything would happen to my data .vdi file  I should be able create a new .vdi file and copy back the data from the shared folder.

The new PC will be arriving next Monday.  Specs are below. My supplier used the PCLinuxOS LiveCD to ensure PCLinuxOS would run. It does. Of course it does  ;D

Quote
Processor: Intel Core i7-2600
Memory: 8Gb (2x 4) Kingston DDR3-1333
Board: Gigabyte P67A-UD3
Disks: 2x 2Tb Western Digital RE4-GP
Video: nVidia GeForce GT 520
WiFi: TP-Link PCIe 802.11n adapter
eSATA adapter: Silicon Image PCIe ext. eSATA (w/ port multiplier)
Cardreader: Lian Li CR-36B
Audio: Customised Audiotrak Prodigy HD2
DVD: Samsung S223
Monitor: Samsung PX2370 23 " LED

Mellon

Offline Just17

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Nice specs!

Enjoy  :D
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Offline DuaneF

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While waiting for my new PC I have been setting up WinXP in Virtualbox on my HP laptop to get used to it.
I was positively surprised how easy it was to set it up including installing the service packs. Current setup is such that I have one virtual hard disk of 32 GB split into three partitions; one for winxp os, one for applications and one for data. I added shared folders which also seem to support running applications apart from storing data. Not sure if running applications from a shared folder is a good idea though.
I probably will make a set up on ten new PC using three virtual hard disks; one for win7, one for the applications and one for the data with some shared folders pointing to physical partitions to be used as back-up folders. In case anything would happen to my data .vdi file  I should be able create a new .vdi file and copy back the data from the shared folder.

The new PC will be arriving next Monday.  Specs are below. My supplier used the PCLinuxOS LiveCD to ensure PCLinuxOS would run. It does. Of course it does  ;D

Quote
Processor: Intel Core i7-2600
Memory: 8Gb (2x 4) Kingston DDR3-1333

Monitor: Samsung PX2370 23 " LED

Mellon

Maybe I've missed something, but my experience has been than 64-bit operating systems won't install with VirtualBox on a PCLinuxOS host. I've been eagerly awaiting the release of a 64-bit version of PCLinuxOS for precisely this reason. On the two or three occasions when I have mistakenly grabbed a 64-bit OS CD to create a new VM on this PCLinuxOS host, I've received an error message telling me that it can't be installed. Even if it could be though, I don't believe a VM can access any more RAM than the host OS can. This means half of that 8GB will be completely inaccessible and unused.

PCLinuxOS is my favorite everyday Linux distro, so if somebody knows a way to use it as a host for a 64-bit guest VM, I'd love to know about it, too.


Offline AS

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While waiting for my new PC I have been setting up WinXP in Virtualbox on my HP laptop to get used to it.
I was positively surprised how easy it was to set it up including installing the service packs. Current setup is such that I have one virtual hard disk of 32 GB split into three partitions; one for winxp os, one for applications and one for data. I added shared folders which also seem to support running applications apart from storing data. Not sure if running applications from a shared folder is a good idea though.
I probably will make a set up on ten new PC using three virtual hard disks; one for win7, one for the applications and one for the data with some shared folders pointing to physical partitions to be used as back-up folders. In case anything would happen to my data .vdi file  I should be able create a new .vdi file and copy back the data from the shared folder.

The new PC will be arriving next Monday.  Specs are below. My supplier used the PCLinuxOS LiveCD to ensure PCLinuxOS would run. It does. Of course it does  ;D

Quote
Processor: Intel Core i7-2600
Memory: 8Gb (2x 4) Kingston DDR3-1333

Monitor: Samsung PX2370 23 " LED

Mellon

Maybe I've missed something, but my experience has been than 64-bit operating systems won't install with VirtualBox on a PCLinuxOS host. I've been eagerly awaiting the release of a 64-bit version of PCLinuxOS for precisely this reason. On the two or three occasions when I have mistakenly grabbed a 64-bit OS CD to create a new VM on this PCLinuxOS host, I've received an error message telling me that it can't be installed. Even if it could be though, I don't believe a VM can access any more RAM than the host OS can. This means half of that 8GB will be completely inaccessible and unused.

PCLinuxOS is my favorite everyday Linux distro, so if somebody knows a way to use it as a host for a 64-bit guest VM, I'd love to know about it, too.



You can run a 64 bit guest OS on a 32bit host, provided that:
1) your host CPU support intel VT-x technology or AMD-V equivalent
2) you enable VT-x support in your machine BIOS
3) you enable VT-x setting in guest machine

About RAM memory, of course your guest can't access more RAM then the installed amount, but may be you refer to the memory limits of 32 bit OS (less then 4 Gb): in PClinuxOS you can overcome this limit using a pae kernel, that will provide to your host a maximum of 64 Gb, the guest can surely obtain 4 Gb (this is what I have actually as maximum in my Vbox, may be more but didn't have checked about.

So, may be you can stop waiting and start to enjoy virtualbox with a 64 bit OS guest right now.  ;)

AS

Offline DuaneF

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You can run a 64 bit guest OS on a 32bit host, provided that:
1) your host CPU support intel VT-x technology or AMD-V equivalent
2) you enable VT-x support in your machine BIOS
3) you enable VT-x setting in guest machine

About RAM memory, of course your guest can't access more RAM then the installed amount, but may be you refer to the memory limits of 32 bit OS (less then 4 Gb): in PClinuxOS you can overcome this limit using a pae kernel, that will provide to your host a maximum of 64 Gb, the guest can surely obtain 4 Gb (this is what I have actually as maximum in my Vbox, may be more but didn't have checked about.

So, may be you can stop waiting and start to enjoy virtualbox with a 64 bit OS guest right now.  ;)

AS

I REALLY do need to spend more time here. Thanks AS!! I have no idea what a pae kernel is, but I see that little search box in the upper right.

Offline djohnston

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I REALLY do need to spend more time here. Thanks AS!! I have no idea what a pae kernel is, but I see that little search box in the upper right.

Open the Synaptic package manager. Click the Search button. Change search parameter from search by Description and Name to search by Name. Enter kernel into the search box. You'll see several kernels listed with the extension pae or pae.bfs. A pae.bfs kernel will give the best performance, I believe.

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Offline mellon

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Although marked as Solved here is an update on the choice I made.

Given the response and having read the manual and having (still) a positive experience with first installing and running Window XP in Virtualbox on my HP laptop, I was convinced that an i7-2600 processor with 8GB memory a 1gb Nvidia graphic card and 2 x 2 TB disks would give Windows 7 enough resources to run smoothly in a Virtualbox.

After two weeks of running, I have now the below settings for Virtutalbox runing Windows 7 ultimate 64 on PCLinuxOS 2011 using a pae/bfs kernel.
base memory: 3584 MB, chip set: ICH9, enable IO APIC, enable absolute pointing device, 8 cpu's of 16, not enabled PAE/NX, acceleration VTx and Nested Paging enabled.
storage on SATA controller: 3 vdi's (windows drive c, e and f) on different partitions
display 128 MB; 3d and 2d acceleration off
audio: off
network: NAT
usb enabled, usb EHCI enabled
shared folders: 2 NTFS partitions

And?
I have managed to install Windows 7 with SP1, using Norton Internet Security 2011. I have Visual Studio 2008 up and running. Since Windows requires to choose a browser, I installed Opera as browser (I use Firefox in Linux). I have also installed some of the other main software packages I intended to install. And they all run fine.

That is all fine except for the fact that is was not as smoothly as with WinXP and Window 7 it is not as responsive or as stable as I would like it to be.
Installing Norton Internet Security 2011 required several attempts. Even now that it is installed on my virtual E: drive it does not always start correctly; especially not after Windows updates. You need to do an extra reboot to make it work again. Even then you may get a spontaneous message that the anti virus software is not running. I disabled the PAE/NX option in Virtualbox, because NIS does fail more often when it is on.

With Windows 7 open and nothing in it running and just leaving it, I got, after and hour or more, a spontaneous critical error from Virtualbox. Happened so far twice. I have now turned the options for power control in Windows off as much as I could. I hope that helps.

Windows 7 is sometimes very slow. It not always clear why. Especially with copying files or cleaning up or searches. So, in general with disk operations. After installing SP1 I use cleanmgr.exe to clean up the back up files and all restore points except 1. I got half way and two hours later I killed the job.

The administrator is not always the boss. There is a guy called Trustedinstaller who owns some important folders. Fortunately as administrator I could change ownerships and take control and delete some files the clean-up tool would not.

Shutdown sometimes just halts.

In addition
as the manual already indicated; picking up one of the USB devices (a printer, scanner or external disk) makes them unavailable for the host. That does not mean that they work.
The Canon MP830 scanner part does not work; the printer does (could not get it working via a network link to the host printer). Linking an external disk is fine, until you start using it for backing up or restoring or just copying large volumes of data. You only do that once. It is not suitable to use for backups. It is quicker to keep the disk on the host and use the partition linked as shared folder as an intermediate station. I have noticed that you can actually share a folder from a USB hard disk mounted on the host and that has (at least it 'feels' like having) a far better performance.

Turning sound on for the guest turns it off for the host. That is why i set audio for the guest to off. Do not need sound on Windows. The customised sound card links to my HiFi and aTunes, Radiotray, VLC all work fine. Listing now to jazz from a Belgium station which  is no available via my cable.

So back to a dual boot? No way.  The main reason for that is that with only about 5 or 6 major applications, I only need Windows for very specific tasks. By using the shared folders I can easily exchange files with Linux and with the bidirectional clipboard I can copy whatever I want.  Despite some of the issues (which are annoying and sometimes worrying) Virtualbox is still a far better functional experience than a dual boot with far less overhead There is another very big advantage.

I rediscover Linux.

I had e.g. a complex Access database I used for my normal household administration plus few more much simpler databases. With Access already installed on the WinXP guest, MS gave me no activation under Windows 7. Right. For professional reasons I may still need to consider buying Access 2010.

But, I discovered LibreOffice Base and find it is good enough for some of my simpler databases.  And then I discovered Skrooge. Oh boy, that I actually missed that one !!
Low learning curve, nice easy csv import, ability to set up own categories. I took me half a day and I have a Linux based financial administration with all my previous Access data since 2006.

The scanner may not work under Windows 7, but it works of course under Linux. But I was used to Paint Shop Pro, because it was so easy to use and quick for processing the scans.  Well, I journeyed back to XSane and this time I spent a bit more time in trying and discovering the different options. Once you how on which window to do what, things as actually easy. Just a bit different.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I hope it may be useful for who wants to take the same dive.. 

Mellon