Author Topic: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread  (Read 2363 times)

Offline smurfslover

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PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« on: February 20, 2011, 08:44:34 AM »
Hi guys i'm thinking about what packages the full gtk apps version should have.
A bit stick on this one as i mostly use and prefer lighter apps.

Here's what i'm thinking of:

Archiving

-file-roller
-brasero
-grsync ?

Editors

-gedit
-meld

File-tools

-nautilus or thunar
-baobab
-bleachbit
-mc

Games

-gnome-games
-??? less important depends on available space

Graphical

-evince (pdf viewer) or epdfviewer (lighter)
-gimp (drawn in by task-printing anyway)
-gpicview, gthumb or eog
-xsane

Internet

-chromium-brower or firefox 4
-thunderbird
-pidgin
-pino
-xchat
-dropbox? (proprietary software)
-skype? (proprietary software)
-Vinagre vnc client
- gsshfs (gui app for ssh filesharing)

Office

-lomanager
-gcalctool
-glabels?
-abiword?
-gnumeric

Sound

-exaile (or quodlibet)
-Floola (ipod)
-???

Video

-vlc uses qt
-mplayer + plugin + gui (?what's the best gtk one?) + mencoder
-gnome-sound-recorder
-audacity
-audacious

More - config

-blueman
-EZSwitch
-gnome-ppp
-restore-mbr
-samba-swat? Looking into gui for ssh, will report back later.
-unetbootin?

More - observation

-gnome-system-monitor
-gnome-system-log
-htop

More - terminals

-xterm
-gnome-terminal

Let me know what you think.
Some basic rules:
1- No qt apps!
2- No mono
3- No proprietary stuff unless no alternatives.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 12:36:52 AM by smurfslover »
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Offline parnote

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 09:24:28 AM »
smurfslover,

I think you have a pretty good list there.

However, I would try to avoid Gtk+ apps that pull in a lot of Gnome dependencies, since that is likely to make things a bit "top heavy."

For Editors, I would opt for Leafpad or Mousepad, two Gtk+ editors without Gnome dependencies.

Under File Tools, I would opt for Thunar or PCManFM over Nautilus. One thing that I particularly like about Thunar over PCManFM is how easy it is to customize the right-click context menu in Thunar.

Under the Graphics apps, Gimp is almost a must-have. I would add ImageMagick to that (particularly useful for CLI users and for customizing the right-click context menu in Thunar). I would also add MTPaint to that list, as well, since not every graphic job requires Gimp. For the "small stuff," Gimp can be overkill.

For Archiving, all of your selections sound like wise choices.

Under Internet, you're going to opt for Chromium over Firefox, when you're already going with Thunderbird? My suggestion would be to opt for Evolution, if you want to go with Chromium ... to avoid installing the mozilla libs. If you are set on Thunderbird as the mail reader, then I'd opt for Firefox, since you'll be installing the mozilla libs anyways. Chromium carries its own weight, since it is one of the largest in terms of file size.

Under Office, it may be a good idea (if you have space) to make AbiWord part of the base installation. When it comes to office suites, most casual users primarily use the word processor. Having AbiWord on there may preempt any need the user may have to download a full office suite (such as LibreOffice), or delay the need. What about some financial software? I know KDE has KMyMoney. I know there are non-KDE/non-Qt applications. Gnucash pulls in a lot of Gnome libs, while MoneyManagerEx appears to be a bit lighter.

Under Sound, I'd add Audacious and Audacity to the mix that you already have listed.

Under Video, you have VLC listed, and VLC pulls in many Qt libraries, which is something you said you wanted to avoid. Totem is available, but it pulls in an almost equal amount of Gnome libraries. Personally, I prefer to run MPlayer on my Gtk+ installations. There is very little that MPlayer can't handle, both in the area of sound and video.

Under More Config, I see Unetbootin. Last time I tried it (some time ago), the Linux version wasn't working all that hot. Why not use Just19's PCLinuxOS LiveUSB Creator, instead? It works exceptionally well, is easy to use, and is a lot lighter (saving you space for other goodies). And I have to admit that I have never heard of Samba-Swat. But then, I also avoid Samba. Since most of my computers in my house are PCLinuxOS boxes, I find SSH a much easier tool to use. And, for sharing files between those computers using ssh, I use gsshfs as the GUI application to facilitate those file transfers (see my Feb 2011 article on SSH in The PCLinuxOS Magazine). Also, don't forget the network applications, like NetApplet.

I just thought I'd weigh in here ... since you asked.  ;D

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Offline melodie

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 09:41:05 AM »
Hi Smurflover,

For a "full gtk", what size iso do you want to get ?

melodie at swissjabber dot ch - IRC #pclinuxos-fr sur freenode

Offline smurfslover

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 11:01:39 AM »
Stuff like netapplet and basic tools you find on any pclinxuos iso are already included in the mini i'll use as a base.
Same for the live usb creator. Unetbootin works fine here i'll use it almost daily to test livecd's and remasters.
I want to use the full size of the livecd to bring in as much applications as possible.
Light apps are not a requirement for this one, i'll make another light afterwards.

Filemanager can be nautilus or thunar because i want to provide a trash icon, i'll go for the best features and usability.
I'll also try to make sure xdg-open honours the preferred apps set through thunar or nautilus.
Thanks for the hint on the gui for ssh will defenitely look into it. If it's easier than samba i'll sure go for it.

I want Firefox 4 stable or chromium, not firefox 3 so for the time being i'll vote for evolution + chromium.
Firefox also has his own way of opening mimetypes so i prefer chromium who uses xdg-open.
But this leaves open the question whether evolution or thunderbird delivers the best functionality.

I thought vlc would be best as it plays anything you throw at.
I thought it was still possible to install it without qt, have to look into dependencies.

Thanks for the suggestions they're most welcome.

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Offline parnote

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 12:24:44 PM »
I thought vlc would be best as it plays anything you throw at.
I thought it was still possible to install it without qt, have to look into dependencies.

In Synaptic, I pulled up VLC, right clicked on it, selected Properties, and went to the Dependencies tab. All the Qt4 dependencies shone through like sunshine through a window.  ;D

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Offline menotu

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 07:50:33 AM »
smurfslover -if you go with exaile, a new version was just released

Exaile 0.3.2.1 is a bugfix release for 0.3.2. A short list of notable fixes:

http://www.exaile.org/

    The shoutcast plugin has been removed from the default install, as shoucast has changed their API and the new terms of service are not compatible with our license.
    The default lyrics provider was changed to lyricwiki, as lyricfly no longer works properly.
    A bug that prevented Exaile from running on very recent versions of pygobject was fixed.
    A bug preventing files from being added via the CLI was fixed.
    A number of additional minor issues were resolved.

Downloads

http://www.exaile.org/downloads

If you are installing from source, please check the DEPS file (included in the tarballs) to make sure you have all the required dependencies to run Exaile.
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Offline smurfslover

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 01:05:27 AM »
I stick to apps packages in the repositories, won't to have system upgradable through synaptic.
You could make a package request for this new version so it lands in the repo for everyone.

I have edited my first post, changes are in italic
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Offline Xenaflux

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 01:26:52 AM »
What do you have for " manipulating " PDF files
( cutting, splitting, merging )

Xx
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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2011, 05:35:48 AM »
I stick to apps packages in the repositories, won't to have system upgradable through synaptic.
You could make a package request for this new version so it lands in the repo for everyone.

I have edited my first post, changes are in italic

I don't use Exaile or E17 - it was just to pass on the info to you in case it helped before you decided on your choices.
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Offline smurfslover

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2011, 07:56:09 AM »
What do you have for " manipulating " PDF files
( cutting, splitting, merging )

Xx

Totally forgot about that.
pdftk or pdfedit + xournal
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Offline Dragynn

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2011, 08:08:58 AM »
Just my two cents ;).

Some context:  most of the apps I use, I have tried several different programs before settling on one I like, and here's my criteria;

1. Reliability (greatly outweighs "cutting edge" for me)
2. lightweight, but not at the cost of functionality.
3. Compatible with backends already installed on my gnome system (GTK, Gstreamer, etc.).

So, from your list:

Brasero (works great, never fails, nice drag-n-drop functionality when making mix Cd's and such)
File roller

Gedit- I was big on Leafpad being a minimalist, but have come to appreciate the little extras of Gedit, nice solid no-issue program.

Nautilus - excellent
Bleachbit- a must have for me
MC- have never found a use for this, some folks might use it, i'm guessing most non-geeks won't.

Gnome games- this is what I always install for a simple game package when I set-up a friend's computer, everyone likes at least one or two of the games, never any functionality issues either.

Epdfviewer- perfect for my needs, very lightweight and very fast in usage.

As far as image viewer, I have to break with your selections and choose Gpicview, very light and very native feeling, like it's just part of the OS.

Chromium by far favorite browser choice for me.

Gcalctool - perfect

Abiword- excellent

Gnumeric- also excellent

Sound= again I have to break with your choices and choose Clementine, much better than the other half dozen I have tried, works great with Gstreamer, I use this program literally all day every day, has all major internet radio streams already onboard just a couple clicks to play, scans a library faster than any other linux program I have tried.

Video= I agree very much with Mplayer, but I use the SMplayer front-end, runs very very smooth and reliably.

Gnome system monitor- like. no issues.

Htop- I like it, but since top is already on my system, seems redundant to have Gnome system monitor and htop and top.

Gnome terminal- absolutely


The programs I chose for my system are mostly pretty light on required dependencies too, that was kind of a tertiary requirement for me as well, I tend to shy away from installing if Synaptic lists a lot of them.

My main machine has the above mentioned programs, minus abiword and gnumeric, but including Inkscape, zenmap, Clamav and CUPS, it comes in at 1236 packages total right now, compressing to just over 600 mb for a remaster (note: that also includes Nvidia proprietary driver and dkms).

Mama's machine is used very much for work and production, it adds Abiword and Gnumeric, and also Evince (came with something, Abiword I think) Scribus, Gramps, Cups, Jpilot,  task-printing-hp, Nvidia drivers and dkms, and also has the non-repo Citrix client installed. It comes in at 1306 packages (not counting the Citrix Xenapp packages), and still compresses to under 700 mb for a re-master.
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Offline smurfslover

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2011, 10:22:58 AM »
gpicview - awesome just love it don't know why it's not on the list
clementine - no qt apps
smplayer - no qt apps
Maybe epdfviewer is a little light on features or do pdf editing tools compensate that? Maybe that's too geeky for a end-user desktop.
I'll leave out htop it's more for a light version.

Thanks for your report.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:28:46 AM by smurfslover »
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Offline werepacman

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2011, 08:59:32 PM »
gnome-system-monitor - uses a lot of resources by itself so it misrepresent results.

I think Abiword is not enough and people who work with documents will install OO or Libreoffice anyway.

chromium uses more memory than firefox. Firefox is also more popular, even for exwindows users. Firefox takes almost 23% of the market share, but Google Chrome takes less than 3%. It is only my thoughts, I believe there is a reason why chromium. (oh, just read the answer)

I have never understood why games are included in OS. :)

Not everyone has dropbox and skype accounts. Preinstalling skype also works against alternative and open-source VOiP services. Skype  is already monopolist and  monster. :)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 09:32:45 PM by werepacman »

Offline smurfslover

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2011, 12:34:27 AM »
gnome-system-monitor - uses a lot of resources by itself so it misrepresent results.

Got any good gtk alternatives besides lxtask?

Quote
I think Abiword is not enough and people who work with documents will install OO or Libreoffice anyway.

Still thinkering with this, should i provide a basic solution on the livecd or just include lomanager?

Quote
chromium uses more memory than firefox. Firefox is also more popular, even for exwindows users. Firefox takes almost 23% of the market share, but Google Chrome takes less than 3%. It is only my thoughts, I believe there is a reason why chromium. (oh, just read the answer)

According to wikipedia 30% for ff and 13% for chromium. Most ie users have shown more likely to switch to chrome than to firefox. I've been looking for benchmarks but while some say firefox uses less others say it uses more memory??
Some advantages of using firefox:
- more extensions and themes available (but for how long)
- ff4 (still in beta) is much faster and responsive as ff3
- better known by users
- better integration? (doesn't really make since all gtk apps are 'alien' in e17)
Some advantages of chromium-browser:
- shorter launch time
- separate processes for each tab/plugin/extension = more stability
- compared to ff3 chromium 9 is more reponsive on older systems. (ff4 been left out in comparison as it is not in the repo's
- better integration of webapps (now with appstore)
- better support for html5 (important or not?)

Quote
I have never understood why games are included in OS. :)

Including them depends if there's space left. Btw windows comes with some games too. lol

Quote
Not everyone has dropbox and skype accounts. Preinstalling skype also works against alternative and open-source VOiP services. Skype  is already monopolist and  monster. :)

That's why skype and dropbox have a '?'
Trying to find out if it would be usefull to have them in or leave that up to the user after installation.
I prefer opensource solutions for everything. :)

Thanks for your reply.
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Offline Dragynn

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Re: PCLinuxOS E17 gtk 'grotesmurf' package selection thread
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2011, 07:32:17 AM »


I think Abiword is not enough and people who work with documents will install OO or Libreoffice anyway.



Have to respectfully disagree with that, Abiword is used as the primary word processor every day here in a business setting, my wife specifically did not want any more MS Office, OO, or LO, she wanted a light word processor and a spreadsheet prog with simple basic cross compatibility with similar programs. She uses Abiword for all business docs now on a daily basis, and also for writing/editing poetry and prose etc.
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