PCLinuxOS Education 2011 08 for test

[melodie]

Hi Melodie,

I installed it today on my desktop computer.  When I clicked on the Install icon while logged in as root it just stopped about halfway through.  I then installed draklive-install in synaptic and after this the install went fine.  I will let my daughter test it out, but I wanted to let you know about the install event. 

It looks good.

Hi,

Has there been an update for draklive-install ? Would it be possible for you to check, by looking into the directory /root/.cache ? If I remember well, that's where the draklive-install rpm is hidden.

I'd also like to know what you and your daughter think of etoys. I'm seriously thinking of removing it. I will need to gain space for languages to add, and I'm not sure it would be a good thing to have more apps in the English version...

Anyone having suggestions of what to remove prior to gain space, is welcome to tell them.
Thanks !

[nixer]

Has there been an update for draklive-install ? Would it be possible for you to check, by looking into the directory /root/.cache ? If I remember well, that's where the draklive-install rpm is hidden.

Yes, it is there:  draklive-install-1.10-10pclos2010.noarch.rpm .  I am unaware of an update recently.

It may have been a minor one-time event, but since it was the first time that I had experienced it with any of your bonsai creations (or any other PCLOS releases), I thought I would mention it in case anyone else runs across it.

[melodie]

Has there been an update for draklive-install ? Would it be possible for you to check, by looking into the directory /root/.cache ? If I remember well, that's where the draklive-install rpm is hidden.

Yes, it is there:  draklive-install-1.10-10pclos2010.noarch.rpm .  I am unaware of an update recently.

It may have been a minor one-time event, but since it was the first time that I had experienced it with any of your bonsai creations (or any other PCLOS releases), I thought I would mention it in case anyone else runs across it.

Very good ! I have done a mistake : added some lines in rc.sysinit for the relevant files to be removed once installed, you know, when you reboot to finish install and the guest account and so are removed. I had forgot about that and hence didn't restore theses files for the following version. Now I'm downloading back RC2 from the webspace at tyruiop, to catch them back... Maybe should I not have theses files removed after install, but only "rpm -e draklive-install", as usual, and not the addtional files that can stay in the home of root : if and admin knows his job well enough, or if we would write a good doc for this version, to be provided along, the admin will erase what he thinks relevant to remove. Any thoughts about that ?

Else : where did you get the install icon ? I don't even have it anymore here ?!

[nixer]

where did you get the install icon ? I don't even have it anymore here ?!

It was on the desktop when logged in as root.  It was located in the top left corner.

You had asked about trying out etoys.  My daughter tried it out and she said that it was "very" complicated and confusing.  She is not an expert but she is above average in computer skills for an 11 year old.  She is very good at "navigating" any menu structure whether it be a start menu on a computer, a computer program, or a cell phone.  So for her to say that it is confusing meant a lot to me.

[melodie]

It was on the desktop when logged in as root.  It was located in the top left corner.

Ok. I'll restore all the missing files anyhow and will remove the faultly lines in rc.sysinit.

You had asked about trying out etoys.  My daughter tried it out and she said that it was "very" complicated and confusing.  She is not an expert but she is above average in computer skills for an 11 year old.  She is very good at "navigating" any menu structure whether it be a start menu on a computer, a computer program, or a cell phone.  So for her to say that it is confusing meant a lot to me.

She confirms what I thought. I might as well remove it...  What about Scratch ? Would she give it a try next time, and visit some of the projects that can be used to work on ? (http://scratch.mit.edu/channel/featured)

Tell your daughter I thank her for her testing. My son will be 11 very soon too, on March 8th

[Aradalf]

What about Scratch ? Would she give it a try next time, and visit some of the projects that can be used to work on ? (http://scratch.mit.edu/channel/featured)

Scratch is pretty good. I remember trying it when I was 11. Though one problem with it is that, though it might teach some of the basics of programming, it's hard to progress from it onto any real programming. There's no real path of progression, which is the problem with most basic programming software designed specifically for kids or beginners. What I mean is that, while you might be able to create some cool programs with it, they will not help when you progress onto a real language. If the purpose for putting Scratch on the remaster is to have a "fun" app to create cool animations with, then Scratch is perfect. But if the purpose is to learn about programming in the process, then it's not so useful. A better alternative would be Greenfoot, which I have a package request for right here: http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,81550.0.html.

[melodie]

Hi Aradalf,

What do you put into the field "Java directory" ? How do you get clean characters ? How much more disk space will it be needed for Java in an Edu that need to be less than 700 MB ? That makes 3 questions which seem important to me.

Last, did you try the one game in Gcompris that is also an introduction to programming ? I mean the one that makes 2 boats move forward and one wins ?

[Aradalf]

What do you put into the field "Java directory" ?

You put "/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.6.0.23-sun", or whatever your installed version of Java is.

How do you get clean characters ?

Sorry, I don't understand.

How much more disk space will it be needed for Java in an Edu that need to be less than 700 MB ?

That would be the main problem in putting Greenfoot on the Edu remaster, since you don't have Java already installed. Most versions of PCLOS don't have it installed, since Java takes up too much space.

Last, did you try the one game in Gcompris that is also an introduction to programming ? I mean the one that makes 2 boats move forward and one wins ?

No, not yet. I shall try it and see how it is.

[melodie]

How do you get clean characters ?

Sorry, I don't understand.

How do you make the fonts look nice ? Antialising, Hinting, subpixel-rendering... that kind of thing.

Last, did you try the one game in Gcompris that is also an introduction to programming ? I mean the one that makes 2 boats move forward and one wins ?

No, not yet. I shall try it and see how it is.

Ok.

[melodie]

Hi,

I have done a RC5 yesterday, uploaded it this night and just tried it. Please read the details about it at the end of first post, and let me know how it goes when you can.

Regards,
Mélodie

[nixer]

I installed RC5 on the same desktop computer and this time it installed fine after I clicked on the desktop icon (while logged in as root).

So far I have noticed that the "My Documents" desktop icon does not open.  It is the user desktop here, not root.  I did not try the root account except for installation.  The program works fine when opened from the right click menu or the taskbar menu.  It is only the desktop icon that does not open on this system.

I played with Scratch some and in my opinion, it might be a little too much for some of the younger kids.  I guess the question is what age of kids are you after? 

I would add here that I think it would be best to add a documentation file on the desktop with a list of available programs and a description of what is available that can be installed.  This would enable someone to add what they think is appropriate.  This would help make up for removing good programs that are removed only for cd-r space requirements, not because they are less important or less beneficial.

I will try to get my "little" beta tester on here today, but she may be busy since it is a weekend.

[melodie]

Hi nixer,

I found 2 things that bothered me, in Virtualbox. Please let me know if you found the same : I met with an issue at reboot just after install, the account "school" had not been removed. So after I entered new root password and was prompted to create a user account, the box replied that this account name (school) was already in use.

So I created a school1 account to see what was going on after. And once I had gone in the session, when I wanted to shut down the system, nothing moved. It appeared that not only haldaemon was not started but I could not start it at all whatever I do. I went to PCC in the System > Services section, and there all services were deactivated. I activated the ones I know to be necessary, but could not start haldaemon : I quit with "halt" in a root console.

This is a testing Virtualbox, for a testing RC5, done with a testing kernel and testing mylivecd... Please let me know what it looks like in a real machine, for what the problems I met with are concerned.

Thanks,
Mélodie

PS : for the docs, I agree and I have thought of it before, but first thing is to make the distro finished and ready to get a new theme, which I hope Ruel24 and Timeth will work together to achieve it (see in Artwork section). While the theme will be on it's way to be integrated, it will be time for us to create the doc to go along with the Education version.

[nixer]

The "school" account failed to delete upon first boot.  I never logged into that school account as I created a new account on the first boot.  I had no problems shutting down from this account but I did notice that I could not mount any partition from Thunar.  So I tried to load pcmanfm and got nothing.  I could not load it from the "My Documents" icon on the user desktop and when I entered pcmanfm in a terminal I got nothing, not even an error message.  I checked in synaptic and pcmanfm is installed.

I will check the hal situation in short order and report back.

Edit:  regarding the haldaemon situation.  It appears to be working fine on my end.  All services seem to be running as expected and haldaemon can be restarted at will.

[melodie]

I will check the hal situation in short order and report back.

Edit:  regarding the haldaemon situation.  It appears to be working fine on my end.  All services seem to be running as expected and haldaemon can be restarted at will.

That's good news, thanks. Maybe was it just because of Virtualbox, or because of the old school account not deleted ? I will login to "school1" in Virtualbox, to try to check.

Found why school account has not been deleted : I have cut a line in 2 in rc.sysinit when I went in there with mcedit to comment the 3 lines related to the files I have added in the root .cache directory. I just fixed it. I have to check the "My Documents" now to try to see why it brings problem to you. I'll be back to say if I find something.



PS: I found. The live contains the new one that starts Thunar and the /etc/skel the one that used to start pcmanfm. I'll fix that now.

By the way, for now the "My Documents" work in the "factory distro", and pcmanfm starts fine from console. You don't access to partitions from Thunar because I think it's wrong to allow easy access to ntfs partitions and eventually any other partitions not mounted on purpose... Only administrators should be allowed to do so, in the context of public use.

[melodie]

Hi,

I am being installing RC6 in Virtualbox. Don't look for it on the webspace, I haven't had time to upload it yet, it's freshly got out of the factory machine.

Let me cross fingers for it to work fine now !