Author Topic: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast  (Read 1421 times)

Offline kjpetrie

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 08:03:57 AM »
So far as your battery is concerned, your laptop is just three variable resistors which drain power at rates varying on how it is used. It knows nothing about the software in use.

In a more general sense, there are plenty of ways software can break hardware if the latter is badly designed and relies on the software to prevent misuse rather than having its own protection. Usually, though, the hardware does contain its own basic protection.
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Offline rubentje1991

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 09:43:48 AM »
I wouldn't think it can affects the battery
(you can of course overclock your pc so much that the processor or another thing gets broken, but a battery....)

Maybe some cells of your battery are broken, so they won't work anymore
or is there some energy leak inside of your hardware (don't know if that's possible, but I would think it is....)

Offline Dragynn

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2010, 12:02:07 PM »
I know booted on Windows XP and power usage is also much. SO I think my battery needs to be changed.
The strange thing is that I had not noticed anything until I started to reuse PClinuxOS on this laptop. In the past I have only used Windows XP.
Now I am not saying its Linux, maybe I just didn't notice it before, but I need to be sure about this before I buy a nwe battery.
So is it possible for software to break in anyway hardware?


As I stated earlier, I would really encourage anyone with this issue to load-test the battery before making assumptions about the state of ANY of the other hardware or software in the system. It really sounds like to me that your battery is doing what laptop batteries typically do when they begin to fail, the timing is coincidental, Linux does not stress batteries anymore than Windoze or McCrap does, at idle, my PCLOS system uses half the resources that my XP install does on the exact same computer.

Sorry man, probably gonna need a new one soon, battery technology has been skillfully manipulated for a long time by those in whose interest it is to sell you more batteries. Case-in-point: The Mars Rovers, run on batteries only re-charged by a small solar panel, originally tasked for a 90-day mission, it's still running six years later (though one got stuck in sand, lol, but it's STILL operational). And Mars, depending on where it's at in it's orbit, is usually around 50 million miles farther from the Sun than Earth is ;).
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Offline Klinux

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2010, 01:16:10 PM »
Please consider the fact that not everybody here is a native english speaker, what do yo mean with:

I would really encourage anyone with this issue to load-test the battery before making assumptions
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Offline Dragynn

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2010, 02:48:41 PM »
Please consider the fact that not everybody here is a native english speaker, what do yo mean with:

I would really encourage anyone with this issue to load-test the battery before making assumptions


Load testing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Load testing is the process of putting demand on a system or device and measuring its response. Load testing is performed to determine a system’s behavior under both normal and anticipated peak load conditions. It helps to identify the maximum operating capacity of an application as well as any bottlenecks and determine which element is causing degradation. When the load placed on the system is raised beyond normal usage patterns, in order to test the system's response at unusually high or peak loads, it is known as stress testing. The load is usually so great that error conditions are the expected result, although no clear boundary exists when an activity ceases to be a load test and becomes a stress test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_testing

You can also do current-draw checks to see how much juice is really being used. I have seen a couple of software programs that would emulate load-testing for your laptop battery.

In general, when you begin the process of troubleshooting mechanical/electrical systems, it's best to break it down into sections, and start at the source, i.e. if it's a desktop for instance, check to see if it's plugged in, and make sure the outlet has power, this may sound simplistic and silly, but I guarantee you it happens a LOT more than you would think, people just don't talk about it ;)

I worked for one of the nation's largest electronic retailers years ago, and they came and got me one day before the store opened, all in a panic because their whole system was down, cash registers, computers, everything. First thing I asked: "Where is the main server"?, after they pointed it out, first thing I did was trace the rather long cord back to the wall, where in the process of rearranging the office the night before, someone had dislodged it just enough to break contact. Literally two dozen people had been trying everything else, calling tech support and their main office, calling the power company, calling their ISP yada yada....and nobody had bothered to check this one simple thing, that should have been the first thing they checked.

Buy another battery, worst that can happen is you now have a spare and have eliminated that as the source of your problem. I have homemade devices to load-test any kind of battery, and know how and where to insert an ammeter inline to check current draw, but the complexity of these things is waaaaaaaaay more than I can type here with my two-finger-hunt-and-peck typing skills ;D
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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2010, 06:46:28 PM »
I have saved batteries by discharging them 100% then recharging.

Take a look here; Memory effect

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Memory_effect


Offline kjpetrie

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2010, 06:56:37 AM »
The memory effect applied to Nickel Cadmium cells which are rarely used nowadays. Lithium Ion batteries as used in laptops do not have this effect and can be damaged by deep discharging (as lead acid cells can). They usually include circuitry to prevent discharge beyond 5% or overcharging.
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Offline T6

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 02:30:17 PM »
usually?

isn't this a rule?

i believe it is, at least netbooks and laptops recently will shutdown in this situation without warnings
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Offline kjpetrie

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2010, 04:32:19 PM »
I suppose I'm just protecting myself against the possibility that some manufacturer somewhere will design a device with a raw battery pack and the control circuitry in the device.
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Offline T6

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2010, 05:08:53 PM »
true

some brands are a shame, cheap models sometimes...
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Offline Klinux

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2011, 02:31:27 PM »
Sooo, here back again.

My question again: can software break hardware?

I got a new laptop that arrived around the 4th January. Battery working perfectly with Windows XP. Battery cold stay 2 hours. A couple of days ago I restored my MBR (cause I was using NTLOADER), with GRUB, so I could access my Linux partition again. Everything seems normal. (Power cord still connected cause I was near a power socket).
Since yesterday whenever on Windows XP or on PClinuxOS, whenever I unplug the AC adapter, the laptop instantly turnes off.
On Windows XP if I look at the battery status it says 0% Charging, even the charging lamp is turned on.
On Linux, if I look at the battery status it says 0.2% Charging,  even the charging lamp is turned on.
I have tried my old battery (which stays only 30 mins instead of 2 hours), and that one charges normally. If i disconnect the AC adapter with that battery, everything is ok.
I tried also another adapter (my old one, yes I had to substitute that too), still same effects.

So, the problem is:
- not the AC adapter (2 tried),
- not the laptop (other battery works)

seems to be the battery (brand new, only 20 days old, working perfectly until last day.

My question:
Did Linux broke my batteries?

Suggestions?

I have read about uninstalling ACPI drivers and reinstalling the,. but still not working
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Offline T6

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2011, 02:52:51 PM »
the charge process is being done without os intervention in modern laptops, you can charge battery with or without a os, with or without the machine turned on

while on linux or windows the system limits to control the parts of the system(cpu, hard disk, lcd screen) and ask more or less power from the battery

the battery itself is controlled by the mainboard and the charger, inside the battery module there is a component, basically a controller card reporting the status of the batteries, this component can fail giving incorrect reports, new parts can fail too

also i have seen some batteries, new, completely discharged refusing to charge, sometimes you have let those connected for a day or more but this can be dangerous, some batteries tend to overheat

basically if it is failing, apply warranty
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Offline Crow

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2011, 06:05:30 PM »
T6 is completely right, the only thing that Linux stresses in a computer (I think) is the processor.

Linux just reports the charge on the battery. My Toshiba has several years working 8 hours (sometimes more) 5 or 6 days a week, always using PCLinuxOS, almost always plugged with battery on place and still gives about 75% of the time that the battery originally did.

About the question: "can software break hardware?"  a friend of mine at the office who used Win XP received a worm in a CD sent by someone from another office and his hard drive stop functioning, same with another computer where he tried to open the same disk. 

Worms/virus are software so I think the answer to that is yes.
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Offline Klinux

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Re: Extreme power usage - Battery gets low fast
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2011, 03:25:16 PM »
Thanks again for the answers. I hope the battery just needs to be fully recharged. I will leave it recharging over night and see what happens
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