Author Topic: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights  (Read 1731 times)

Offline peter_pclos

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2010, 10:39:26 AM »
Just19:

The etc/fstab content is:

Code: [Select]
[peter_h@localhost etc]$ cat fstab
# Entry for /dev/sdb6 :
UUID=d1bedbd1-0773-4e7c-98d2-4dd18c638650 / ext3 defaults 1 1
# Entry for /dev/sdb5 :
UUID=c4555e3a-877c-4345-a611-388fe9ea768c /home ext3 defaults 1 2
none /proc proc defaults 0 0
# Entry for /dev/sda7 :
UUID=e35ebcbf-556e-4c3e-b419-fed3adfeb813 swap swap defaults 0 0
# Entry for /dev/sdb1 :
UUID=a18bd45e-accf-4318-bf67-ee93050fe8e8 swap swap defaults 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts defaults 0 0
tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0

Is this any help?

Offline melodie

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2010, 10:51:41 AM »
Hi,

Your fstab shows there are 2 swap partitions, on 2 different drives. If you intend to keep theses 2 drives together in the same machine, you may suppress one of the 2 swap partitions, as an operating system will generally use one only. (And we wish not to use any if possible as it slows down the use of the machine). What size are they and how much RAM do you have ?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 02:07:45 PM by melodie »
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Offline Was_Just19

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2010, 11:04:35 AM »
Just19:

The etc/fstab content is:

Code: [Select]
[peter_h@localhost etc]$ cat fstab
# Entry for /dev/sdb6 :
UUID=d1bedbd1-0773-4e7c-98d2-4dd18c638650 / ext3 defaults 1 1
# Entry for /dev/sdb5 :
UUID=c4555e3a-877c-4345-a611-388fe9ea768c /home ext3 defaults 1 2
none /proc proc defaults 0 0
# Entry for /dev/sda7 :
UUID=e35ebcbf-556e-4c3e-b419-fed3adfeb813 swap swap defaults 0 0
# Entry for /dev/sdb1 :
UUID=a18bd45e-accf-4318-bf67-ee93050fe8e8 swap swap defaults 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts defaults 0 0
tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0

Is this any help?

I would first ry the following, even though it may not fix the problem, it is the next thing to try in the progression ......  edit that fstab file by commenting out a couple of the entries and writing in replacements. Putting a ' # ' at the beginning of a line ensures that line will be ignored. SO here is what I suggest it could look like .......

Quote
# Entry for /dev/sdb6 :
#UUID=d1bedbd1-0773-4e7c-98d2-4dd18c638650 / ext3 defaults 1 1
# My replacement is next
/dev/sdb6  /  ext3 defaults  1 1
#
# Entry for /dev/sdb5 :
UUID=c4555e3a-877c-4345-a611-388fe9ea768c /home ext3 defaults 1 2
none /proc proc defaults 0 0
# Entry for /dev/sda7 :
UUID=e35ebcbf-556e-4c3e-b419-fed3adfeb813 swap swap defaults 0 0
# My replacement is next
/dev/sda7  swap swap defaults 0 0
#
# Entry for /dev/sdb1 :
UUID=a18bd45e-accf-4318-bf67-ee93050fe8e8 swap swap defaults 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts defaults 0 0
tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0

As you can see I have just replaced the UUID numbers with the device notation for /dev/sda7 * /dev/sdb6.
I did this solely to determine if the UUID numbering was a problem.
If not then the next item on the list must be attempted.

Probably the easiest way to do this is to use Synaptic and install a second kernel.
Reboot immediately afterwards.

The first boot with a new kernel is a long affair ......  as the system builds some things for the new kernel.
Again if you delete the splash option you will be able to observe this on screen.

Regards.

Offline Was_Just19

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 11:07:27 AM »
Hi,

Your fstab shows there are 2 swap partitions, on 2 different drives. If you intend to keep theses 2 drives together in the same machine, you may suppress one of the 2 swap partitions, as an operating system will generally use one only. (And we wish not to use any if possible as it slows dhwn the use of the machine). What size are they and how much RAM do you have ?

ON that I believe you are not correct .......  it is my understanding that the OS is quite capable of using all Swap partitions available to it in the system. In fact I think I have either 2 or 3 such Swap partitions in this PC.

You might also explain how having Swap space available in the event the system runs out of RAM could possibly slow it down. I do not follow this.

regards.

Offline melodie

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2010, 11:20:23 AM »
You might also explain how having Swap space available in the event the system runs out of RAM could possibly slow it down. I do not follow this.

regards.

Hi Just19,
Very simple. None of my machines have 4 GB RAM, the more I have in one machine is 1 Go. So I sometimes happen to run out of ram or almost.

The swap partition is space on hard drive, for temporary memory to be put there : RAM is fast, and hard drive is slow. I could be more at ease to explain that in French and find links that still explain even more.

You also may find infos in English about that, that will give more details. Just one thing : if you happen ever to have to use "swapoff /dev/the-swap-partition" you will know why. :)

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Offline peter_pclos

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2010, 01:54:40 PM »
Replying to Just19:

 I've tried your suggested edits to fstab, and the behaviour on the re-boot was exactly the same as previously, so it looks as though the 'simplest' solution is to install a new kernel and boot from that.  As far as I can see the BFS option which came with my download of PCLinuxOS 2010 is hardly necessary for my basic single-processor configuration, so my next step will be to install the 2.6.32.24-pclos1 kernel and see where that gets me.  My understanding from the various posts in this thread is that this ought to solve my problem.  I'll report back asap, but (as I confessed somewhere upstream) I'm not a systems person, so I will proceed slowly and with great caution!

Offline Was_Just19

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2010, 02:00:26 PM »
Melodie, what you said was having Swap space  "slows dhwn the use of the machine".

As far as I am aware .......  as the Swap is only used when there is no more RAM available, it has no affect of the machine until used ...........  and it is much preferred to have some memory available, even if slower than RAM, than to run out of memory altogether.

So I do not see it as slowing down the machine.

regards.

Offline Was_Just19

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2010, 02:03:30 PM »
Replying to Just19:

 I've tried your suggested edits to fstab, and the behaviour on the re-boot was exactly the same as previously, so it looks as though the 'simplest' solution is to install a new kernel and boot from that.  As far as I can see the BFS option which came with my download of PCLinuxOS 2010 is hardly necessary for my basic single-processor configuration, so my next step will be to install the 2.6.32.24-pclos1 kernel and see where that gets me.  My understanding from the various posts in this thread is that this ought to solve my problem.  I'll report back asap, but (as I confessed somewhere upstream) I'm not a systems person, so I will proceed slowly and with great caution!

You should, if yours is a desktop machine, install the newest BFS kernel. The BFS patch is to configure the kernel for desktop use rather than server use (in simplistic terms).

You can have many kernels installed and try out each to see which runs best on your hardware.
I believe I have four or five installed on theis desktop PC.

regards.

Offline melodie

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2010, 02:11:35 PM »
Melodie, what you said was having Swap space  "slows dhwn the use of the machine".

As far as I am aware .......  as the Swap is only used when there is no more RAM available, it has no affect of the machine until used ...........  and it is much preferred to have some memory available, even if slower than RAM, than to run out of memory altogether.

So I do not see it as slowing down the machine.

regards.

Hi,

I rephrase : if we run out of ram, and therefore if we have a swap partition mounted, the system will use the swap to compensate for the missing ram : this will avoid us from having the machine crash, but then the processes will be slow. Therefore we do have swap partition (one or more, but one only is enough).

It is not desirable to have to use it. (Because all the processes will then be slow).

Just check with the command "free" or "free -m" to see : if swap is seen (if it's mounted) and if it's used.

peter_pclos : as I read you are not very advanced about managing systems, I will add this : once installed a new kernel, keep both installed ; reboot and choose the entry for the new kernel. First reboot will be delayed because of some dkms that need to be taken in account by the newly installed kernel, and at the following reboot on that one kernel, it should be all ok.

BFS has nothing to do with the cpu type. It's a special way the kernel handles the processes. (scheduling). You can use one or not, as long as the system works it does not matter too much. (on the user side I mean... here I don't see the difference).

If you want to uninstall the preceeding kernel, wait at least after a pair of reboots, and be sure all works ok with the one you newly installed.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 02:18:44 PM by melodie »
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Offline peter_pclos

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights [SOLVED]
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 11:43:34 AM »
Finally, success!!  The installation of the new kernel has solved all the remaining issues and everything is now working at proper speeds.  Many thanks to all who provided advice and assistance.

Thanks especially to melodie for her advice:
Quote
peter_pclos : as I read you are not very advanced about managing systems, I will add this : once installed a new kernel, keep both installed ; reboot and choose the entry for the new kernel. First reboot will be delayed because of some dkms that need to be taken in account by the newly installed kernel, and at the following reboot on that one kernel, it should be all ok.

BFS has nothing to do with the cpu type. It's a special way the kernel handles the processes. (scheduling).
Having now carried out the installation of the kernel (and finding that it is now a totally pain-free experience via Synaptic) I will now feel much more confident about this aspect of system management. As far as BFS is concerned, I was going on Kolivas' description of the advantages of his scheduler - but I've used the BFS kernel version anyway. Mille remerciements!

Offline melodie

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights [SOLVED]
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 01:13:49 PM »
Mille remerciements!

Avec plaisir !

I was sure you would finish by solving it. Just a matter of patience, as you are beginner.
Keep on well!
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Offline Old-Polack

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 02:56:50 PM »
Hi,

Your fstab shows there are 2 swap partitions, on 2 different drives. If you intend to keep theses 2 drives together in the same machine, you may suppress one of the 2 swap partitions, as an operating system will generally use one only. (And we wish not to use any if possible as it slows down the use of the machine). What size are they and how much RAM do you have ?

Swap is desirable to prevent the machine from crashing/locking when installed memory (RAM) reaches it's limit. While generally slower then actual RAM, it is sped up by having it spread over numerous hard drives with equal priority, in which case it acts in the manner of a striped RAID array. Advising to take advantage of this feature is far better than telling someone to disable one of their available swap partitions, if one wants to minimize the slowdown effect.

[root@littleboy ~]# swapon -s
Code: [Select]
Filename                                Type            Size    Used    Priority
/dev/sda2                               partition       1702880 94008   3
/dev/sdc2                               partition       8096752 94108   3
/dev/sde2                               partition       6008300 94224   3

As I run a lot of apps simultaneously, I almost always have some swap space used, as shown above, but there is no perceptible slowdown unless a great deal of swapping is taking place, with massive amounts of swap space being used. Even then, the processes involved will actually complete, rather than lock the system, and will do so more smoothly with the multiple swaps, than with only one.

If one hibernates the machine, at least one swap partition needs to be double the installed RAM, and designated as the resume partition, as the machine can use only one swap partition for that function.
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Offline melodie

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2010, 03:12:59 PM »
Hi Old-Polack,

You always have very precise and fine explanations. I thank you for this one. (Just one thing : what method do you use to set the priority of the swaps ?)



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Offline Old-Polack

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Re: GRUB kills Windows - and other delights
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2010, 04:30:09 PM »
Hi Old-Polack,

You always have very precise and fine explanations. I thank you for this one. (Just one thing : what method do you use to set the priority of the swaps ?)



I have mine set in fstab. You can change the priority during run time with the commands;

[root@localhost ~]# swapoff -a                <Enter>

if you want all the swaps turned off at once, or;

[root@localhost ~]# swapoff /dev/<whatever>                <Enter>

to turn off a single swap partition.

To restart with a priority of 3 as I have;

[root@localhost ~]# swapon -p3 /dev/<whatever>               <Enter>

I have my swap partitions labeled, so use those in the fstab entries. The settings for priority, below, are in blue.

[root@littleboy ~]# cat /etc/fstab |grep swap
LABEL=swap200           swap                    swap    sw,pri=3                        0 0
LABEL=swap160           swap                    swap    sw,pri=3                        0.0
LABEL=swap1000          swap                    swap    sw,pri=3                        0 0
LABEL=swap750           swap                    swap    sw,pri=3                        0 0

The actual priority number used doesn't really matter, as long as they are all the same, and a positive number.

You will note that in the earlier post I had the swap160 partition turned off when the example was taken, so only the other three were being used. On a reboot, all will start with equal priority, so there will then be four heads reading/writing the swap, distributed over the four drives, rather than the three previously shown. Turning it on now, shows 0 bytes on that partition, as it was not on when the swapping occurred.

[root@littleboy ~]# swapon -p3 LABEL=swap160

[root@littleboy ~]# swapon -s
Code: [Select]
Filename                                Type            Size    Used    Priority
/dev/sda2                               partition       1702880 92976   3
/dev/sdc2                               partition       8096752 93056   3
/dev/sde2                               partition       6008300 93172   3
/dev/sdb2                               partition       1959920 0       3
Old-Polack

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