[SOLVED] New build - do I really need 4GB RAM due to big video card?

[Nish]

I am building a new box that will be all linux.  But, I am getting into VMs (trying) so I know RAM will be nice to have.  I was about to order my typical set of dual channel 2x1GB but then read somewhere that the memory on video cards needs to be addressed by system and I just got myself a card with 1GB on board.  This runs contrary to what I thought was an advantage of a separate card, that it would have its own memory and not rob the system although I guess the big benefit is CPU is spared the video load.  There was a link in another post about memory addressing but admittedly it is all over my head  

Anyway, if it is true and the system will need to take 1GB because of my poor card choice, I really need to go to 2x2GB, don't I?  1GB is not enough to play with VMs, I don't think.

Or, maybe better to bring the card back for a more modest one with the usual 512MB on board?

[muungwana]

can you give a link to website pointing to the card you bought? video cards usually say so on their list of specs if they use their own build in memory and hence dont use system memory or if the use system memory.

There is no way of knowing what that card does without knowing its specs.

If you will want to run VM, then have as much memory as you can afford. One gig can be tolerated, two is okeyish.

[Aideka]

Well I´m no expert here, but your video card is not robbing system memory in any way. The problem is really only about that 32 bit operating system can only access maximum of 4 gb of memory, and of course your computer must also be able to access your video card memory to use it. So that would mean that if you had 4 gb memory and 1gb video card, you would "lose" some ram. There however is PAE kernel available on pclinuxos repositories that enables you to use up to 64 gb of ram. (correct me if i am wrong here) So in short there should not be any problems with 2gb ram+ 1gb vid. card. But considering that you want to use vm:s i would go for the 4gb and get the pae kernel from repos just to be sure there is not swapping around.

[Padma]

My gut reaction is that you will be fine.  The problem with a 32-bit system is it can only see ~4G of *addresses*.  Since your card has 1G of built-in RAM, it will use *that* RAM to map its address space, leaving your system's 2G of RAM to the OS.

(If you have over 3G of RAM for the system, the memory addresses of the card overlap your system RAM, rendering system RAM above 3G wasted.)

[Nish]

Thank you all, for your input.  Here are details that some of you had asked for and I didn't want to lay on you right off the bat 

My current AMD sempron 140 is going into a new board.  A board with an AMD chipset that may (or may not) be able unlock the second core which may or may not be stable.  Otherwise, I might just try and overclock it.  Haven't tried it on its current board since it is older and my memory is weenie (good KVR DDR2 800 but weenie for these purposes).

The video card I picked up: http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/01G-P3-1225.pdf to replace the Radeon on board the new mobo - the nVidia card currently being used with the cpu on the old board is pretty weenie too 

I was going to be picking up either Corsair performance or Kingston Hyper X in 1066 to give me some headroom if I have to overclock.  I can afford 2GB kit barely but 4GB, don't think so.  DDR2 is getting too expensive now.

I would like to avoid Windows entirely now but have two apps that are mine and old and my family and I use a lot.  Lotus 123 (no laughing - nothing can touch 11 nested IF functions that it can do) and Photoshop 4 (no, not CS4, just FOUR.0)  is mine and paid for and I am sure I will never be able to afford such again.  So I want to capture the W98 those are running on now and put in a virtual machine.  Also would like to play with other distros - don't worry, heart always belongs to PCLinuxOS.  And haven't decided if I would need to throw on XP for a few games I might miss to much that won't run in Crossover.

Don't hink I can do it with just 2GB if the card will reserve 1GB?  Or trade in the graphics card for something that won't need as much addressing? 

Also don't know if I will need the PAE kernel if I am going only with 2GB unless there might be other benefits if I do unlock and wind up with a dual core.

[Aideka]

Well if you are going to have 2 gb of ram, then there isn´t going to be any problems with 1gb video card . The video card will not affect the ram memory in that case at all, since combined there would still be under 4gb of memory. So you will have all of that 2 gb to os and virtualizing and not lose anything of it. And yes, you don´t need the pae kernel if you have 2gb ram and 1gb video memory. i suggest that you use either BFS or A64 kernel, I don´t know which is faster, since on my athlon 64 box both are pretty much the same. Oh and have you tried those apps in wine? But anyway: 2 gb of memory will work just nicely and the card will not reserve anything from it

[muungwana]

that card comes with its own dedicated 1GB of memory and wont take any of your system memory hence you can set up your system's main memory without any though on the card's memory feature.

[Nish]

that card comes with its own dedicated 1GB of memory and wont take any of your system memory hence you can set up your system's main memory without any though on the card's memory feature.

OK, thank you.  Still having trouble wrapping head around how this works but that is why I asked people who know 

Well if you are going to have 2 gb of ram, then there isn´t going to be any problems with 1gb video card . The video card will not affect the ram memory in that case at all, since combined there would still be under 4gb of memory. So you will have all of that 2 gb to os and virtualizing and not lose anything of it. And yes, you don´t need the pae kernel if you have 2gb ram and 1gb video memory. i suggest that you use either BFS or A64 kernel, I don´t know which is faster, since on my athlon 64 box both are pretty much the same. Oh and have you tried those apps in wine? But anyway: 2 gb of memory will work just nicely and the card will not reserve anything from it

TY2! I guess I will be OK to go with faster memory at 2x1GB then.  Not sure about which kernel but there will be much trial and error anyhow since this will be my first real foray into the new PCLOS, I am still on 2009 on the old machine, I know nothing about OC'ing since pencilling the L2 bridge on my old duron a hundred years ago, and I am trying real hard to understand VMing. 

And yes, I have tried in wine and I also have crossover, old PS is a no go and so is Lotus 123.  The old PS is more about the machine, even with patching for fast processor it is ugly to install even in windows 98 now, I have it sitting on the old main box that is a quadruple boot, 98, XP, PCLOS and debian SID.  I am trying to streamline operations and get rid of really old hardware finally with VM. And look Ma, no more floppy drive! HOORAY.  I can't tell you how many first boots on new builds I have had to look at the darn light staying lit, ugh.

[hounddog]

That's a nice video card, but if you are just going to run linux and virtualisation, I'd get a cheaper display card and get more system memory.  The expensive display card is only good for graphics intensive games and CAD applications.  If you're not running either it's better to get more memory so you can allocate more system memory to your guest OSes that you run in virtualbox, vmware etc etc.

[djohnston]

My gut reaction is that you will be fine.  The problem with a 32-bit system is it can only see ~4G of *addresses*.  Since your card has 1G of built-in RAM, it will use *that* RAM to map its address space, leaving your system's 2G of RAM to the OS.

(If you have over 3G of RAM for the system, the memory addresses of the card overlap your system RAM, rendering system RAM above 3G wasted.)

I'm running a pae kernel with 4GB of system RAM. My nVidia card has 1GB of video RAM. There is no overlapping, because all video is channeled through the video card's RAM. All 4GB are available to the system.

[darrel@localhost ~]$ free -lt
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       4101156    3591880     509276          0       1756    2967900
Low:        859420     425788     433632
High:      3241736    3166092      75644
-/+ buffers/cache:     622224    3478932
Swap:      2096440          0    2096440
Total:     6197596    3591880    2605716
[darrel@localhost ~]$ uname -a
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.33.6-pclos1.pae #1 SMP Tue Jul 6 14:25:11 CDT 2010 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+ GNU/Linux
[darrel@localhost ~]$

[Nish]

I'm running a pae kernel with 4GB of system RAM. My nVidia card has 1GB of video RAM. There is no overlapping, because all video is channeled through the video card's RAM. All 4GB are available to the system.

I am starting to understand a little, I think   It is a complicated - no wonder so many different takes on it (I have googled a bit too)

That's a nice video card, but if you are just going to run linux and virtualisation, I'd get a cheaper display card and get more system memory.  The expensive display card is only good for graphics intensive games and CAD applications.  If you're not running either it's better to get more memory so you can allocate more system memory to your guest OSes that you run in virtualbox, vmware etc etc.

Tomb Raider - Anniversary   works perfect under CX games but my old card was not up to playing it at more than minimum.  I think it was more a case of streams than anything else, the old one had only 16.  This was a good deal on clearance at brick&mortar and with $35 rebate.  TR is my one of my few gaming vices.  Sadly Underworld is not working at all with wine or CX and I would have to VM XP - my new card will probably be able to manage it, old one could barely play on the very lowest settings. Alice being the other vice and there are issues with both XP and CX. Hence, a foray into all things VM - I  am gonna try