[SOLVED] - please help re choice of software

[arjay]

I am just starting to look into the possibility of using a virtual machine to run a couple of XP apps.  I will gladly research the choices further but it maybe that my needs obviously dictate a single choice.  If so, perhaps someone could point this out and then I only need to swot up one application.  Hope this is OK - not lazy but economical with my time  

I have one PC on my home network that still runs XP.  I need this in order to view websites for charities that I design in Windows' various explorer options.  I also use a golf handicap product that works out handicaps for two small societies I look after (HandicapMaster 7).  I have tried running the latter under wine but no go.  

I would really like to see if I can run linux and windows software on the same PC without dual booting.  One thing that seems to determine choice of software is that I presume I need USB support.  Just about everything I have is USB-based: monitor (for built-in webcam), keyboard, mouse, camera downloads, UPS monitoring, and external hard drive for backups.  The other is hopefully a facility to drag and drop between linux and windows programs if possible.

Does this requirement point obviously to one choice or should I go look in more detail at the options?  BTW I use PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE on one PC and other versions on others (eg lxde) apart from the Win XP machine.

Thanks

[pags]

I am just starting to look into the possibility of using a virtual machine to run a couple of XP apps.  I will gladly research the choices further but it maybe that my needs obviously dictate a single choice.  If so, perhaps someone could point this out and then I only need to swot up one application.  Hope this is OK - not lazy but economical with my time  

I have one PC on my home network that still runs XP.  I need this in order to view websites for charities that I design in Windows' various explorer options.  I also use a golf handicap product that works out handicaps for two small societies I look after (HandicapMaster 7).  I have tried running the latter under wine but no go.  

I would really like to see if I can run linux and windows software on the same PC without dual booting.  One thing that seems to determine choice of software is that I presume I need USB support.  Just about everything I have is USB-based: monitor (for built-in webcam), keyboard, mouse, camera downloads, UPS monitoring, and external hard drive for backups.  The other is hopefully a facility to drag and drop between linux and windows programs if possible.

Does this requirement point obviously to one choice or should I go look in more detail at the options?  BTW I use PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE on one PC and other versions on others (eg lxde) apart from the Win XP machine.

Thanks

VirtualBox is in the repos, but you say you require USB support, and the OSE in synaptic doesn't include USB...the proprietary version (download from VirtualBox (Sun?  Oracle?)) does include it, and the initial, apparently obvious answer is to sat use that and be done with it.  However, when I look at the listed examples of USB devices

monitor (for built-in webcam), keyboard, mouse, camera downloads, UPS monitoring, and external hard drive for backups

my first question I would ask is:
Which of these devices are required exclusively under Windows (that is, will NOT be used under Linux)?
My guess would be: none; but only you can answer that decisively.
Anything used by Linux will be emulated under Windows if required (such as keyboard, mouse, etc), otherwise you would probably be using native Linux apps (for things such as webcam, UPS, external HDD, etc).
If that is the case, then the requirement becomes on of software (web site development testing, golf handicap software, etc).  If these are the limits of your requirements for Windows, the the OSE VirtualBox in Synaptic will suffice.

Hope that gives you somewhere to start...don't be afraid to ask for more detailed information.
 

[arjay]

VirtualBox is in the repos, but you say you require USB support, and the OSE in synaptic doesn't include USB...the proprietary version (download from VirtualBox (Sun?  Oracle?)) does include it, and the initial, apparently obvious answer is to sat use that and be done with it.  However, when I look at the listed examples of USB devices

monitor (for built-in webcam), keyboard, mouse, camera downloads, UPS monitoring, and external hard drive for backups

my first question I would ask is:
Which of these devices are required exclusively under Windows (that is, will NOT be used under Linux)?
My guess would be: none; but only you can answer that decisively.
Anything used by Linux will be emulated under Windows if required (such as keyboard, mouse, etc), otherwise you would probably be using native Linux apps (for things such as webcam, UPS, external HDD, etc).
If that is the case, then the requirement becomes on of software (web site development testing, golf handicap software, etc).  If these are the limits of your requirements for Windows, the the OSE VirtualBox in Synaptic will suffice.

Hope that gives you somewhere to start...don't be afraid to ask for more detailed information.
 

Thanks for the helpful reply.  Shows how much I still have to learn.    Of course, the only things required to work under windows, presumably, are the keyboard and the mouse - both USB - but it sounds from what you say if they are running under linux, with win xp as the guest that is OK.  I guess I will try the VB version in the repos.

From what you hint at, virtualbox is ok and I don't need to "mess with" VMWare?

I'll give VB a go from the repos and report back next week.

[j-retired]

I reckon you'll probably need the version of VirtualBox from their website to ensure USB functioning.  It was fairly straightforward; download the one from the "Virtual box for Linux hosts", find the PCLOS version and install..... but they haven't got one for 2010 yet! So I suggest you try the "Older builds" heading where you WILL find the PCLOS version albeit only for the 2007 pclos. Choose the VB 3.1 version.
Install with < rpm -ivh 'name of file including extension'.  Set yourself to be a member of the Vbox group.

HOWEVER.......  If you install outside the repos, help from the forum is likely to be in short supply! AND you might break your install, so BACK-UP first!

I haven't tried this with 2010, but it certainly worked well with 2009, and let me run things like 'Sibelius' which is fairly cantankerous with regard to USB features!

If it doesn't behave, then you'll have to try one of the latest 'rpm' versions - I can't help in guessing which - or alternatively what about Qemu or KVM or VMWare  - or even 'Wine'?

Good luck,
j

edit: Don't bother with the latest versions of VBox if the old one doesn't work - other people have tried and say none work - sorry!

[kjpetrie]

VirtualBox doesn't care how the keyboard and mouse are connected. Linux will take care of that. Similarly, if you need to transfer files from a USB device occasionally, they can be read into pclos and then transferred to the virtual machine using shared folders, or a virtual ISO, virtual networking, or whatever other method you use to move files between the 'two' machines. You only need USB support if Windows needs to access USB devices such as cameras or scanners directly, using Windows drivers.

[djohnston]

Arjay,

What you want to do with your USB devices is now possible. VirtualBox was written by Sun. Sun has now been acquired by Oracle. Oracle, for some reason, does not want to provide OSE packages for PCLinux. There is a package in the repos named getvirtualbox. The package will automatically download and install Oracle's current VirtualBox. The package should remove any previous versions of VirtualBox you have installed, as long as they were installed from Synaptic. Two packages, x11-driver-input-vboxmouse and x11-driver-video-vboxvideo will stay in place. Their purpose is spelled out by their names.



kjpetrie is right about the mouse and keyboard. You don't have to worry about it. Maybe if you're using some exotic wireless link. I use a Logitech G11 "gamers" USB keyboard and a Kensington "Expert" trackball USB mouse. I haven't had a problem yet. Even with the older versions, I had no input problems. The older versions of VirtualBox listed in the repos don't have USB support. As you can see from the screenshot, most any USB device plugged in will be detected by this newer version. The Western Digital external HDD shown in the VirtualBox USB devices is the USB volume shown as a hard drive named Storage is shown in the upper left-hand corner of the screen.

You will be more concerned with decisions about screen resolution, DirectX rendering, whether or not you should allow XP access to your network connections, etc. You can pretty much do in a VirtualBox session running XP whatever you can with XP on actual hardware. The exceptions will be determined by your real video hardware, the amount of system and video RAM your machine has, and possibly some other factors. You can choose to run VirtualBox sessions in "seamless" mode, where the session is full screen on your desktop, with no window borders or decorations. When it is done correctly, your Windows and Linux desktops, in effect, "become one". But it's a lot of work if you are going to run only one or two apps. Your setup will all depend on what your end goal is.

[arjay]

djohnston

First - many thanks for taking the time and trouble to update us on the getvirtualbox option. 

I have successfully installed the older version from the repos, on a test PC I maintain for this purpose.  I am at the stage where I can run the win software I need OK, seamless windows and everything, but VB stubbornly fails to give me access to either a shared folder on the Win XP host from PCLOS, or access from the win xp guest to PCLOS folders.  I'll post separately about that.

My intention is to setup a VM for the Windows app I need, on my main production PC, when trials on the test PC are complete. I'll definitely use getvirtualbox for that install.  I think, perhaps, I'd best stay with the repo version until I have figured out how to get everything I need to run first. 

Just one question for you if you are following this thread - if I install getvirtualbox on the PC that is already running VB from the repos,  you say it will over-write all of the current VB install except the two specified files.  Will it also remove my current VM?  I don't want to lose that!

Thanks again

Richard

[djohnston]

Just one question for you if you are following this thread - if I install getvirtualbox on the PC that is already running VB from the repos,  you say it will over-write all of the current VB install except the two specified files.  Will it also remove my current VM?  I don't want to lose that!

No, Tex has assured us your VMs are safe. Let's assume, though, that you need backup copies of your VMs. Where are they? When you first run VirtualBox, it creates the directory ~/.VirtualBox. ~ is the symbol for your home directory, and the folder VirtualBox is hidden because of the dot before the name. Look in that folder and you'll find 2 more folders, HardDisks and Machines. The HardDisks folder contains all the .vdi hard disk files you will create. The Machines folder stores descriptions and state information for each different virtual machine. For example, you may have a machine in the saved state, or you may have created VirtualBox backups of a previous machine state. All that type of information is stored in the Machines folder. The files you see listed in the main ~/.VirtualBox directory are main configuration files and are not to be tampered with. In order to backup all your machines, you simply copy the hidden VirtualBox directory in your home directory to another location. By all means, rename the copied folder or remove the leading dot so the folder is normally visible.

I don't like losing some of mine, either. If I've done a new, clean install of the operating system, I first install VB from Synaptic. By the way, getvirtualbox is officially supported. If you find it in one of the PCLinuxOS repositories, it is supported. Anyway, after adding VirtualBox to a fresh install, I simply copy the backup to my home directory, then rename the folder to .VirtualBox. When I start the actual program, all my machines are there, like ducks in a row.

Yes, I "watch" the threads I have posted to. After I've logged in to the forum, I generally click the Show new replies to your posts link. Sometimes I can't remember where I've been, so I need a road map.

[arjay]

Thanks heaps.

I'll try the getvirtualbox route and report back.

[MCP]

While reading your reply and looking at the images you posted I noticed the clock on your desktop.  Could you please tell me how you got that look?  Is it the same analog clock widget?  Did you just change it somehow?

Please let us know,
MCP

[arjay]

OK - just to update folks.  I made a copy of my .virtualbox folder (setup after installing VB from the repos) just in case. 

I then downloaded and ran getvirtualbox from the repos (on my LXDE install).  This retrieved and installed VB OSE from the Oracle site.  It installed perfectly, overwriting everything except the two files mentioned in an earlier post and also my current Win XP guest machine files.  I now have everything running just fine including seamless windows, shared folders, access to my home network of 5 PCs etc etc.

The only thing that still won't work is printing to my HP Deskjet 840C on serial port lpt1 but I am investigating why...

Thanks for all the help.

[MCP]

OK - just to update folks.  I made a copy of my .virtualbox folder (setup after installing VB from the repos) just in case. 

I then downloaded and ran getvirtualbox from the repos (on my LXDE install).  This retrieved and installed VB OSE from the Oracle site.  It installed perfectly, overwriting everything except the two files mentioned in an earlier post and also my current Win XP guest machine files.  I now have everything running just fine including seamless windows, shared folders, access to my home network of 5 PCs etc etc.

The only thing that still won't work is printing to my HP Deskjet 840C on serial port lpt1 but I am investigating why...

Thanks for all the help.

arjay,

Just a minor correction. The one that "getvirtualbox" downloads and installs is the PUEL version.  "getvirtualbox" is just an install script to enable a correct install.

MCP

[arjay]

arjay,

Just a minor correction. The one that "getvirtualbox" downloads and installs is the PUEL version.  "getvirtualbox" is just an install script to enable a correct install.

MCP

Aaaaah stand corrected.  Got a bit confused with all the different versions.  Never mind, whatever I got, it works just fine

[djohnston]

arjay,

Can you post a screenshot of your seamless desktop? I'd really like to see how it looks.

[arjay]

arjay,

Can you post a screenshot of your seamless desktop? I'd really like to see how it looks.

Sure - hope this works (!) - note from picture:

1. Background is kde desktop with clock and calendar plasmoids or whatever you want to call them

2. Win XP task bar up left of screen plus PCLOS task bar along the bottom.  You can choose whatever you want from either O/S and they run on the same desktop - how cool is that!!

3. Open on desktop as examples are IE 8 from XP and Dolphin from PCLinuxOS 2010.

Hope that is what you wanted to see.  If not, ask away.

RJ