Author Topic: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB  (Read 4185 times)

Offline vc

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Re: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 05:19:49 PM »
Could someone please explain to me what the advantages are of using one of these 'live-boot' apps?  I can't quite grasp the point of them - what is wrong with simply performing an install to a USB stick directly?

Offline Was_Just19

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Re: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 06:21:22 PM »
Could someone please explain to me what the advantages are of using one of these 'live-boot' apps?  I can't quite grasp the point of them - what is wrong with simply performing an install to a USB stick directly?

Flash sticks had a very finite write limitation which made them unsuitable for long term full installs. Live OSs do not write to the device.
An install expects to find a specific set of hardware when it is booting, a live OS does not, which makes the live OS portable.
A flash stick can hold several live OSs and give you an option to boot into any it contains.
Some PCs have no optical drive ... Netbooks ....  so the flash stick is the method of booting and installing.
Booting from a USB live OS is much faster than using optical media.
It is very easy to change the OS on a flash stick.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 06:23:54 PM by JohnBoy »

Offline vc

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Re: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 07:54:12 PM »
Flash sticks had a very finite write limitation which made them unsuitable for long term full installs. Live OSs do not write to the device.

Yes - this is the same reason why I am encountering some difficulty at present with installing to my EeePCs.  Due to the background disk write activity problem with certain desktop environments, I have recently adopted the practice of installing to the SDHC card only and avoiding the onboard SSD entirely (as the card is easily replaceable, whereas the onboard SSD is not.).  This method does indeed result in an install that performs more slowly; however, with all considered it seems the most prudent.

An install expects to find a specific set of hardware when it is booting, a live OS does not, which makes the live OS portable.

That is a good point JohnBoy, and one which I'd not previously considered (as my EeePCs are the only machines I have which are capable of booting from USB/SDHC.).


A flash stick can hold several live OSs and give you an option to boot into any it contains.

Again, something I'd not considered, as I'm quite happy with PCLinuxOS for nearly everything.  In the instances I've encountered where PCLinuxOS is unsuitable (386-586 class machines; SCSI), such equipment usually requires booting from CD directly, anyway.


Some PCs have no optical drive ... Netbooks ....  so the flash stick is the method of booting and installing.

What; no floppy?  ;-)

In my situation it's usually more the case that if a particular machine has no CDROM drive, then I'll attempt to install one.  With the EeePCs however, I've a bit of an unusual advantage, in that I once bought a case of twenty USB-IDE adapter cables (as they remain the only means by which to overcome the inherent 8/30/120GB BIOS disk size limitations of many of my machines), and therefore it is a simple matter for me to merely grab another CDROM drive from the pile and plug one of those adapters into it.

Booting from a USB live OS is much faster than using optical media.
It is very easy to change the OS on a flash stick.

Both quite true... in the two instances where I have performed USB installs, both did indeed boot and run more quickly.  However; I had assumed that to perhaps mostly be due to my usage of proper linux filesystems in each case, as most of the 'inexpensive' sorts of USB sticks I've encountered seemed to be rather slow in data transfer rate anyway - slower, actually, than the data transfer rate I usually obtain with an external drive and adapter cable.

I suppose now that the only real advantage I could see in making use of a 'boot-stick' app would pertain entirely to your point regarding hardware specificity - is there no way, then, to perform a ('portable') 'live-CD' install to a stick by loop-mounting the .iso, copying the files contained therein to the stick, and then installing GRUB to the stick directly as well?  With that method (assuming it to be possible), one then has the great advantage of installing into a proper linux filesystem.

That has always been my major point of confusion concerning the various 'boot-stick' app methods, as they all seem to require installation into a FAT-formatted device only, and I don't quite see the point to that as it is very easy to wipe such a stick with dd and then reformat it properly.  A Windows-user could still boot a linux-formatted stick regardless, so why force linux into a FAT-based filesystem - especially considering the limitations of such?  It just doesn't make sense to me.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 08:01:31 PM by vc »

Offline Was_Just19

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Re: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 03:04:35 AM »
Quote
I suppose now that the only real advantage I could see in making use of a 'boot-stick' app would pertain entirely to your point regarding hardware specificity - is there no way, then, to perform a ('portable') 'live-CD' install to a stick by loop-mounting the .iso, copying the files contained therein to the stick, and then installing GRUB to the stick directly as well?  With that method (assuming it to be possible), one then has the great advantage of installing into a proper linux filesystem.


http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,62202.0.html

Quote
Again, something I'd not considered, as I'm quite happy with PCLinuxOS for nearly everything.  In the instances I've encountered where PCLinuxOS is unsuitable (386-586 class machines; SCSI), such equipment usually requires booting from CD directly, anyway.


As I have remarked elsewhere I have a number of the PCLOS releases on one 4GB USB stick. It allows me the option to boot whichever one is suitable for the hardware limits of the machine currently being booted and to install from there.
I have also included such as PartitionMagic on the stick also.

Also I can remaster my own install full of settings and apps that I like and carry that with me to boot and/or install, leaving little to be done afterwards.

In addition, having the facility to install or update an OS on the stick - when persistence is again functional - gives great freedom between releases or remasters.

Note to self ....  sometime soon I should rewrite the tute linked above to reflect any changes due to the move to KDE4 for 2010. It has not changed for some years  ;)

regards.

Offline vc

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Re: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 12:22:24 PM »
Thank you, JohnBoy!  That is a splendid tutorial, and I encountered no difficulty in following your instructions.  The issue of 'persistence' of course awaits resolution, and when it is resolved I shall again attempt to make use of your method, as the thought of having a number of inexpensive PCLinuxOS 'live USB' sticks on hand to give to friends and others does seem rather appealing.

For this moment though, as I do effectively require such 'persistence' for two immediate install applications I shall remain with my 'regular install' method instead.  As the first does not require any 'portability' (because it shall be used on the same 701 model of EeePC that I have already created it upon, anyway), the creation was completely straightforward - I merely performed the install to a ReiserFS primary partition on an 8GB SDHC card successfully, and am now configuring same for usage later this evening.

The second install application may be a bit more worrisome, as the intended recipient lives several provinces distant from my location and the intended target in this case is a different machine.  However; I am mindful of and encouraged by the previous success I encountered a couple of years ago, with installing PCLinuxOS 2007 into my wife's old Fujitsu LifeBook B2130.  As that machine has no means whatsoever of booting externally (other than an associated proprietary external SCSI CDROM drive, which I do not have), my recourse was to remove its hard disk instead for attachment to a bare motherboard of similar class (Celeron-300) and perform the entire install externally.  Upon re-installing the hard disk back into the LifeBook and then attempting to boot from same, the machine came up to a commandline prompt only (due to the hardware differences); however, a few minutes with XFdrake and alsaconf quickly brought that install to full functionality and that same machine has been running without any problems since.  So accordingly, I am hopeful that this same technique may perhaps succeed in the second case also.

Offline Was_Just19

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Re: Make LiveUSB doesn't make live USB
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2010, 12:46:50 PM »
There are likely a couple of boot codes that would help in your second project such as specifying the Vesa graphics at boot, and setting harddrake (in System settings) active at boot, and possibly a couple of others.

regards.