KDE4 graphics speed problem

[pbowyer]

I have three PCLinuxOS installations on different hard disk partitions. I have PCLinuxOS-2009.1 using KDE 3.5.10 (updated to whatever the latest is), PCLinuxOS-2009.2 using KDE 3.5.10 (also updated to whatever the latest is), and PCLinuxOS-2009.2 using KDE4 (also updated to whatever the latest is).

My machine has a Pentium-4 CPU (with Hyper-threading) running at 3.2 Ghz with a graphics card that has a nVidia GeForce4 MX 440SE chipset for an AGP Pro/8X (0.8V/1.5V) system board slot. The graphics operation under KDE4 is jerky and noticeably slow, but under KDE3.5.10 there are no problems whatsoever.

I've done some looking around on this site and on the Internet and I've discovered that the speed problems under KDE4 are entirely due to nVidia's graphics driver. I'm using the nvidia_96xx propietary driver from the repository and I don't know if there is another that will work.

My questions are: What is the solution for my configuration that will get the graphics speed up to KDE3.5.10 performance level? Is there a nVidia graphics card that I can buy (reasonably priced) for my system that uses a better driver? Will there be an upgrade available for my current nVidia driver that will address this problem? Will KDE 3.5.10 continue to be supported so I'm not forced into using KDE4?

I know I'm approaching the threshold for a system upgrade, but I don't want to be forced into it just yet because my system is still keeping up with many of the current machines on the market.

Any working solutions to my quandary will be much appreciated...

[menotu]

I know I'm approaching the threshold for a system upgrade, but I don't want to be forced into it just yet because my system is still keeping up with many of the current machines on the market.

You may want to consider waiting the PCLos 2010 distro - with KDE4 - which will be out pretty soon (how soon is anyones guess  ) so you may want to wait for that to appear (Note: the new 2010 distro requires a fresh install - i.e. it can't be updated from any of your current systems, including your KDE4 one)

There is an Nvidia 190.xx driver in the testing section of the repo which you may want to try (check on the NVidia site and it should tell you if its okay for your card)

[pbowyer]

Thanks for the tip, menotu. I did look on the nVidia site for info on the 190.xx driver, but I couldn't find anything. I must have been looking in the wrong place. However, I did a search for a driver for my card and discovered a newly released (this month) driver for it, which I decided to download and try. It looked to be several revisions later than the driver in the repositories (96.43.07).

What was downloaded was "NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.16-pkg1.run" and I had to set it executable with chmod and then I ran it as root. The first time I tried it, it wanted a different compiler (gcc-4.4) so I aborted per instructions and then ran it with "CC=gcc-4.4.1 && NVIDIA-Linux-x86-96.43.16-pkg1.run" and ignored the recommended quit. It ran to completion, then asked me if I wanted to have xorg.conf automatically setup, to which I agreed. After getting out of root, I started the X server and I had a working graphics environment.

By the way, prior to trying the download, I went into PCC and tried to set my graphics card to something different and ended up with a screen full of hash. I had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill the X server. At that point I decided there was nothing to be lost by trying the downloaded driver.

I had to fiddle with the graphics settings in PCC to get the monitor and resolution reset where I wanted them, but I was careful not to change the graphics card, which was set to "Custom" and I left the Options alone also because when I tried changing them, it would no longer test the settings and I had to quit without saving and start over.

I have a noticeable increase in graphics speed without the jerkiness I was experiencing with the older driver. If nothing comes along to destroy the settings, I'm happy for now.

ADDED NOTE:
  Now that I'm using the new driver, I haven't been able to activate Desktop Effects for KDE4. Not a big deal for me, but something changed that I haven't yet found.

[vatsok]

Take a look here
http://userbase.kde.org/GPU-Performance#nvidia-settings
it might help you.

[gallup]

Do you think that the increase in performance is from the new driver, or that you mentioned kde4 desktop effects are now turned off? Did you try turning them off with the old driver?

[T6]

if the video card with problems is the nvidia geforce 4 mx440se the problem is the video card itself

this card probably has 64 mbs of video(if not 32) only and for kde4 desktop effects it looks like you need 128 but that is just a comment from my part

this video card is really old, 10+ years isn't? i know because i assembled a pc with that one in 2000 and it was't the latest in the product line

the latest drivers you mention will not support it, this video card is only supported by nvidia legacy driver, i can't confirm this but supposedly the only driver that works for it now is the 96.xx version

if you are in kde4, the first thing you should do is open kde control center and disable kde desktop effects

if you want desktop effects possibly compiz can help you

other than that, a change in video card could be a better option, in this circumstances you can get a agp video card as good as a gforce 6200 or a ati hd4650 but in this circumstances the price is the limit

if this machine is as old as i think it is, a replace of the whole machine sounds like a better approach in general

[oldschool]

if the video card with problems is the nvidia geforce 4 mx440se the problem is the video card itself

this card probably has 64 mbs of video(if not 32) only and for kde4 desktop effects it looks like you need 128 but that is just a comment from my part

this video card is really old, 10+ years isn't? i know because i assembled a pc with that one in 2000 and it was't the latest in the product line

the latest drivers you mention will not support it, this video card is only supported by nvidia legacy driver, i can't confirm this but supposedly the only driver that works for it now is the 96.xx version

if you are in kde4, the first thing you should do is open kde control center and disable kde desktop effects

if you want desktop effects possibly compiz can help you

other than that, a change in video card could be a better option, in this circumstances you can get a agp video card as good as a gforce 6200 or a ati hd4650 but in this circumstances the price is the limit

if this machine is as old as i think it is, a replace of the whole machine sounds like a better approach in general

T6,

There may be more than 1 version of the GeForce 4 MX440se graphics card. That is the model I use, but it has 128MB of video RAM and supports AGP 8x.  You are right when you say that it needs to use the 96xx driver. As far as being able to run desktop effects... No problem (as long as you don't go overboard on the number of effects yoou enable). Speed is close to KDE3.5.10 running compiz-fusion. Yes, MX440se is ancient, but at least 128MB AGP 8x version of it still seems to get the job done.


oldschool

[T6]

"There may be more than 1 version of the GeForce 4 MX440se graphics card. "

nowhere i said that no one is using it 

i remember seeing 64, 32 and 128 mb models, in that time 128mbs was a luxury for most people

the speed of the video card is not important, on older pcs it is possible to find agp 2x and 4x but this shouldn't be a major problem

the problem i said you could have is with kde4 desktop effects, completely unrelated from compiz, you can have kde4 desktop effects and don't have compiz installed

[oldschool]

"There may be more than 1 version of the GeForce 4 MX440se graphics card. "

nowhere i said that no one is using it 

i remember seeing 64, 32 and 128 mb models, in that time 128mbs was a luxury for most people

the speed of the video card is not important, on older pcs it is possible to find agp 2x and 4x but this shouldn't be a major problem

the problem i said you could have is with kde4 desktop effects, completely unrelated from compiz, you can have kde4 desktop effects and don't have compiz installed

T6,

Perhaps this is an English to Spanish back to English translation issue...
I never suggested KDE4 desktop effects (compositing) had anything to do with Compiz-Fusion or Vice Versa.  The point I was making is that some MX440se cards on some computer systems run KDE4 desktop effects with nearly the same speed as they did running Compiz-Fusion under KDE 3.5.10. Your initial post seemed to suggest that MX440se cards were the problem... I felt that some versions of it could be a problem, but not all.


oldschool

[T6]

"Perhaps this is an English to Spanish back to English translation issue..."

  

"I never suggested KDE4 desktop effects (compositing) had anything to do with Compiz-Fusion or Vice Versa."

it sounded like that, this forum is very specific, most times this confusions happen

"Your initial post seemed to suggest that MX440se cards were the problem... "

i still think that the video card is the problem, when used with kde4 desktop effects, if you can enable compiz, it could work very well or not, i already said that you could need lots of video ram for kde4 effects but many users said that you can do compiz with 32 or even 16 mbs of video ram

since this video card is very old, it is probable that it doesn't have enough video ram to work well with kde4 desktop effects but since the o p haven't answered yet this is speculation from my part, in general the kde4 desktop effects disabled and the proper driver installed should fix the problem

[oldschool]

T6,

Well, if it has 64MB or less of RAM, I'd say your assumption was the correct conclusion, but if ,like mine, it has 128MB, then the problem lies elsewhere in all probability.
Oh! where, oh! where has the o p gone? Oh! where, oh! where could he be? The suspense is killing me... I just have to hear what the answer will be!!! 

Catch ya later,


oldschool

[pbowyer]

if the video card with problems is the nvidia geforce 4 mx440se the problem is the video card itself

this card probably has 64 mbs of video(if not 32) only and for kde4 desktop effects it looks like you need 128 but that is just a comment from my part

this video card is really old, 10+ years isn't? i know because i assembled a pc with that one in 2000 and it was't the latest in the product line

the latest drivers you mention will not support it, this video card is only supported by nvidia legacy driver, i can't confirm this but supposedly the only driver that works for it now is the 96.xx version

if you are in kde4, the first thing you should do is open kde control center and disable kde desktop effects

if you want desktop effects possibly compiz can help you

other than that, a change in video card could be a better option, in this circumstances you can get a agp video card as good as a gforce 6200 or a ati hd4650 but in this circumstances the price is the limit

if this machine is as old as i think it is, a replace of the whole machine sounds like a better approach in general

T6:

I had to do some checking, but I think my graphics card is short on memory. What I have is a Mad Dog card (they're no longer in business) using an nVidia chip. When it boots up I see 64MB, but I haven't looked at the card to confirm that is the total memory. I know the bios window is set to 64MB.

In PCLinuxOS-2009.2 with KDE4 desktop, I remember having desktop effects enabled once, but then I disabled them because it seemed slow. After I disabled them I was still experiencing speed problems so I finally tried the driver I mentioned previously and that fixed the speed problems I was experiencing (without desktop effects enabled). Once that driver was installed, I could no longer enable desktop effects.

As a further comment, I downloaded the PCLinuxOS-2010-beta1.iso and installed it on separate partitions and that will not allow me to enable desktop effects either. But it does not have any of the speed problems I was experiencing with PCLinuxOS-2009.2 with KDE4.

I know my machine is old. I don't remember exactly when I built it, but it's been a few years (maybe approaching ten). I'm still happy with it's performance, even in today's multi-core CPU environment. I've seen some of these fast multi-core machines in operation, and I'm still keeping up with many of them. It would be nice if software developers remembered that everyone doesn't necessarily want to go buy the very latest gadgetry when they are putting together drivers and such-like.

I'm sorry I took so long to reply. I was busy fooling around with some software and besides, I had decided the KDE4 desktop was not going to work for me. Now with the PCLinuxOS-2010 release soon to get past beta testing, I'm changing my mind about that.

[T6]

"I know the bios window is set to 64MB."

that is not related to the available amount of video ram and to be honest i don't know what it is(something video open size), i have tried various settings when overclocking on windows and playing games, haven't seen any improvements, never

if you have a integrated video card and the nvidia video card the amount of ram you share to the integrated one doesn't matter because you have a video card installed, the video card in the agp or pci port disables the onboard one and if it is not enabled verify the bios to disable it

"I know my machine is old. I don't remember exactly when I built it, but it's been a few years (maybe approaching ten)."

time to upgrade perhaps? i know that when you assemble a pc you want to squeeze all the juice from it but current apps require more cpu power, multicore or not

"It would be nice if software developers remembered that everyone doesn't necessarily want to go buy the very latest gadgetry when they are putting together drivers and such-like."

the current market is based on the fact that most users will replace their pcs under a  3 - 5 year period

you can find options to use your older hardware but in the end older hardware is just that, older hardware

some users are lucky and can have hardware working for 10+ years but those hardware parts usually start to degenerate and fail in very interesting ways, hard to diagnose and wasting lots of time

anyway, maybe i need glasses or i'm too tired, i don't see what driver are you using and how you set it, also if you installed the right driver form synaptic

[pbowyer]

I think I have found a decent graphics card (EVGA GeForce 6200 AGP 8x w/256MB memory) for not a lot of money ($40).

When it gets here (next week), what is the proper procedure to change the new card for the old card in my PCLinuxOS installations?

Remember that I have a 2009.1-KDE3, a 2009.2-KDE3, a 2009.2-KDE4, and a 2010-KDE4-beta that will need to be upgraded. All of the systems are current, or will be current, with the repositories before the card swap begins.

How do I get each installation in a state that will allow the new card to be recognized and the drivers properly installed after the swap?

I've searched a little in the forums and I've seen reference to "XFDrake" and "video" as ways to get some hardware issues solved. If these are the accepted ways, what is the command sequence I should issue to accomplish the graphics card swap?

[T6]

"I think I have found a decent graphics card (EVGA GeForce 6200 AGP 8x w/256MB memory) for not a lot of money ($40)."

nice jump, you will enjoy the speed difference 

"what is the proper procedure to change the new card for the old card in my PCLinuxOS installations?"

i haven't seen similar post recently, if i remember correctly this are the steps

change the driver to vga graphics(in pcc), the most simple and common driver before removing your video card

turn off the pc, unplug the pc power connector and the open case and remove the monitor connector

remove screw form video card, move gently the lock in the agp port(if exist) and remove the video card

connect the new one in place(this model doesn't require extra power connector but if it does, check if you have the molex adapter), put again the lock and the screw, close case and connect the monitor again

turn on the system and log in, then install the proper driver for it, nvidia 170 seems to be the right one or maybe a more recent one could work too, in synaptic should be available

if the system doesn't give you gui you can write in console XFdrake to set driver and monitor options

there is another possible solution but i don't remember it now