vim over ssh in konsole on kde4 [solved]

[stealth]

No, if you will carefully read all my posts. You should be able to see exactly what I am talking about. I am not saying this to be a smart a__ just trying not to repeat myself again. I think my last post is very clear (at least I think it is). It should not be hard for anyone who is familiar with konsole, vi/vim and ssh and the difference between the GUI/DE (KDE4) F7 and a text terminal (no GUI/DE) F1-F6, to understand what I am describing.

The lack/absence of response from the PCLOS team is very surprising. I know they know what I am talking about.

[stealth]

Now that I am back at the house I thought maybe a little education would be in order for those who don't know and would be interested in learning. I am going to try to make the problem that I have with the ssh session a lot more clear.

A standard Linux distro install usually comes complete with a Desktop Manager (DM) a Desktop Environment (DE) a GUI and window manager and all of that runs run top of the X window system. The system boots to a graphical login which opens up to your DE. That process opens on tty7 (F7). If you Ctrl+Alt+F1 through F6 you will find yourself at text terminal login prompt where you will have to login to do anything. A not so standard install, such as building the entire system from source code, might not have the X window system, DM, DE, GUI or window manager. At boot that system will bring you to the text terminal with a command prompt where you will have to login to do anything. This will usually be tty1 (F1).

I am using PCLOS, which boots up to tty7 or F7 and I am connecting via SSH to a system that boots up to tty1 or F1. The only time I have any problem at all with doing that is when I try to launch vi or vim on the remote system running without graphics. And, Only when I do it through KDE 4's Konsole, which uses xterm. run echo $TERM in konsole it produces xterm. run the same echo $TERM at the command prompt when at tty1 through tty6 it produces linux.

If I by pass the KDE 4 Konsole and use xterm directly ssh into the remote and run vi or vim I don't have a problem at all. I also do not have a problem when in tty1 through tty6 connecting to the remote. and like wise, I don't have a problem if the remote also has a DM, DE, GUI, window manager and the X window system. As I have said several times already the only time I have a problem using vi or vim on the remote is when the remote does not have graphics ability installed and only when using the application called Konsole in KDE 4. Using the application called xterm does not have a problem. Using the application called konsole in KDE 3.5.10 does not have a problem either.

There is something screwy going on with the application called Konsole in KDE 4 when connecting via ssh and trying to run vi or vim on a non-graphical remote system. I still have not been able to determine if this is a PCLOS or a KDE wide problem.

I really hope this is clear.

[kjpetrie]

Then you have a problem in KDE or ssh on your system, since others can use vim or vi over ssh from KDE4's Konsole without a problem.

I am using my old .kde folder renamed to .kde4 though, so it is possible there is something wrong with the default configuration which I am not using.

[stealth]

You don't know that I have a problem only on my system, because no one has said they are using KDE 4 Konsole to SSH to a remote non-graphical system.

I don't have a problem either when there is the X window system on both systems.

Will someone please just test this from a KDE 4 Konsole to a remote system that has no X window system installed and tell if you are seeing the same thing I am?

Why is it that everyone seems to be missing what I am talking about? Are all of you so stuck on a GUI system that you can't use a non-graphical text terminal?

[kjpetrie]

Sorry if my last post wasn't clear enough. I don't know whether my hosting company's server has a GUI or not. I do know it's FreeBSD 4.10 and runs bash 2.05, and I only use ssh in KDE 4 Konsole to access it.

It hasn't got vim but vi works fine.

[travisN000]

Are all of you so stuck on a GUI system that you can't use a non-graphical text terminal?

Are you so stuck on a console environment that you can't use a GUI?

..just in case you are not quite clear on what PCLinuxOS is, it is a DESKTOP oriented project. 

That is not to say that it cannot be run as as you describe, but most people that use it do so because they want to use the GUI.  I personally use Konsole and ssh on a frequent basis; I even use it to work on servers running at init level 3 (X not running, but still installed).  I find that just as some things are easier done from console, there are also many things that are much easier and faster to do with a GUI.

I think you will find that getting help here will be easier if you don't take an aggressive attitude toward the community that you are seeking help from (especially when it is free and voluntary).

[T6]

"The lack/absence of response from the PCLOS team is very surprising. I know they know what I am talking about."

are you serious?

you are basically stating that after 20 replies and 200 reads nobody does care about this problem you have? the team is forum moderators, forum members and developers

in some situations it is all in one

"Are you so stuck on a console environment that you can't use a GUI?"

my exact reading on this

last time i checked vi and vim were replaced by gui versions, kwrite to mention one

i know the great value a cli apps has, specially to recover a linux system that has problems but gui tools on livecds are so common that you rarely try to find a manual that teach you how to use a app that requires lots of knowledge and remember many keyboard combinations

i am not saying that the problem shouldn't be fixed but i say that you are approaching to the problem in the wrong angle

[Padma]

I understand exactly the problem stealth is describing.  I have never experienced it, because I have no systems at home without X to try ssh-ing into.  At work, where I must use MS Windows on my desk, I ssh into many *nix servers that have no X Windows installed, and edit all kinds of files using vim.  It is an incredibly useful tool.

T6: I think stealth is approaching this correctly.  He uses PCLOS as his desktop, but must access other systems that do not have X windows installed.  He cannot ssh in and use kwrite or any other gui tool.  He uses vim in console mode.  This should work.  For some reason, it does not when he does the ssh from a Konsole.

[Texstar]

I can't test at this time because:

1. I don't have a computer without xorg installed.
2. I no longer have KDE 4.3.4 installed.
3. I've never used vim over ssh. In fact I've never used vim or emacs.
4. I'm busy working on another project that is taking all of my time.
5. You've already stated you can use a work around with xterm.

[T6]

"T6: I think stealth is approaching this correctly."

i meant being corteous, other users haven't been able to replicate the problem but he decided that everybody is wrong and he is right

i think Texstar answer nailed the thing completelly

[stealth]

My last post was out of frustration. I have not at any time in this thread asked anyone to help me find a work around. I have two that I am using now. Yes, being able to do it from the Konsole and not xterm would be nicer, but I can deal with that. Dropping into a tty text terminal is quick and easy also. The problem is by no means a show stopper. I just thought some one on this forum/project might want to find out about the problem and figure out if the PCLOS team needs to fix something or bring it to the attention of the KDE team upstream.

T6, I never said anybody was wrong or right. That has nothing to do with it. Most of the posts in this thread are mine. I have been very patient hoping some one would take interest. In order to take interest one needs to post some kind of reply to my questions or requests for testing on another system. Yes I was serious when I said lack/absence of response. No one showed any interest in trying to find out what is the cause of the problem. Did you bother to offer help or show interest? No, you decided I needed to be blasted because of my last post. Yes there have been a lot of people looking and very few responding.

Yes I know this is a volunteer project and yes I know that no one on this forum is entitled to any help.

Thank you travisn000 for your initial reply to test.

Thank you kjpetrie, for your attempt to offer help.

Thank you Padma for your reply! Thank you for acknowledging that you understand what I was saying about the problem.

Thanks Texstar, sorry that I ruffled some features. I know you are working on another project. Maybe when the newer version of KDE is in PCLOS this Konsole problem will disappear.

I have given all the information about the problem, as far as I can tell. I will leave this thread alone now and only respond if some one from the development team actually wants more information for the purpose of finding a solution.

[kjpetrie]

What you seem to be suggesting is that when ssh establishes a connection it probes the remote system to see whether X is installed and if it is not sets an environment variable which then causes Konsole 4.3.2 to behave in such a way that it cannot communicate with vim on the remote machine. There are, of course, other possible interactions which could contribute - the shells running on the local and remote machines, the locales on the local and remote machines, is it ssh or KDE which initiates this probe? maybe the remote machine just responds with the info and that somehow upsets konsole's communication with vim.

There are so many variables here that it's not really possible for anyone to know where to start trying to replicate the problem. I think if you really want to help, you and your local LUG are probably the people best equipped to investigate it further to establish exactly what conditions cause this phenomenon and whether it is distribution-specific, and then make a bug report to the appropriate place.

[stealth]

Fair enough. I will discuss this with my local LUG.

[T6]

"Did you bother to offer help or show interest? No, you decided I needed to be blasted because of my last post."

yes, when you did the original(almost two weeks) post i watched it but quickly discovered that i don't have any knowledge on this so i couldn't help you in any way, of course that i could ask you to teach me how to set a test environment but that would be a monumental task for you, don't you think?

if no one post a answer to your question is because not much people has experience doing what you need to do, if nobody answers but many people reads the post, that means that you are not alone and people wants to help you

[aherkey]

I see you are very frustrated with this, but one thing is missing from you explanation. You say "vim over ssh in konsole on kde4" does not work, but you never explain how vim fails. Does vim start? Cursor keys not working? Text garbled?

- Andy