Can't stand the 'Device Notifier' applet - how may I change it, please?

[thorper]

I've been playing with KDE4 for a few days and will throw in my 2 cents on my experience during my evaluation of KDE4.

I am a long standing KDE3 user, I like it's ease of use, especially for people who are computer illiterate. I have done several installs of PCLOS running KDE3.5 for a number of people and after an initial and brief run through of what apps do what and where to find them, the new users have gone away happy and I've not had to repeatedly explain how to use KDE3.5. I have a many many years experience of using a computer (over 30 years) so getting to grips with KDE4 for me was an adventure, where I sometimes get lost and have to ask for directions, but I get usually resolve issues by myself. I think KDE4 will be far too daunting, not only for computer illiterate people but also newbies coming from Windows. For the foreseeable future I will install LXDE on any new installs I am asked to do. This will mean I can let new users get on and use their new systems in the knowledge that my phone won't be ringing off the hook with questions.

Hopefully the KDE developers will take on board the comments and criticisms from KDE4 users whichever distribution they use, as vc previously suggested, and make KDE4 as friendly and easy to use as KDE3. After all linux is a community not a dictatorship unlike other operating systems (not mentioning any names).

I will take to KDE4 eventually, I can't continue using KDE3.5 forever because new apps will appear in the future that I may want to use and could crash a kDE3.5 system, so I will upgrade when I have finished my evaluation of KDE4.

To the KDE developers. Listen to what users are saying, this doesn't mean you have to take their suggestions on board, but don't distance yourselves from the users. To Texstar and the PCLOS team, another fantastic release, from what I've seen so far, keep up the great work.

[Maurice]

I think KDE4 will be far too daunting, not only for computer illiterate people but also newbies coming from Windows.

But surely Linux, whether with kde3.5 or kde 4, is not meant for the computer illiterate. And nor should it be.

And neither, for that matter, is MS Windows. Anyone new to computers should expect - and will certainly be confronted with - a somewhat steep learning curve compared with other pursuits they may take on.

I have not used Windows7 but, from previous experience with Windows from its inception, I would think Kde4 is no more difficult.

[thorper]

I think KDE4 will be far too daunting, not only for computer illiterate people but also newbies coming from Windows.

But surely Linux, whether with kde3.5 or kde 4, is not meant for the computer illiterate. And nor should it be.

And neither, for that matter, is MS Windows. Anyone new to computers should expect - and will certainly be confronted with - a somewhat steep learning curve compared with other pursuits they may take on.

I have not used Windows7 but, from previous experience with Windows from its inception, I would think Kde4 is no more difficult.

I based my comments on my experience of installing several KDE 3.5 systems for people who could switch on a computer and nothing more. After brief tutoring, and by brief I mean 30 minutes, these people are able to find and use the apps they are interested in using. When trying to resolve problems for windows users with no computer knowledge I have found to be stressful and frustrating. Trying to talk someone through a Windows menu to find an app while on the phone can be like pulling teeth.

I wouldn't expect a novice user to undertake system tasks in Linux without help from someone with reasonable knowledge to talk them through it. KDE4 is still better than Windows in it's ease of use but I feel it's not as user friendly as KDE3.5. My view on this may change has I use and learn more about KDE4

[Maurice]

KDE4 is still better than Windows in it's ease of use but I feel it's not as user friendly as KDE3.5. My view on this may change has I use and learn more about KDE4

I agree with you there but I think it's well worth the effort. I may have had an easy transition as I have no major apps that have caused me any strife in the changeover as some posters have. I still have one installation on which I have kept kde3 and I must say I like to go back to it now and again.

Finnished

[johnmart]

I hope this isn't hijacking vc's thread, but concerning kde-whatever for the computer illiterate (c.i.), I think that PCLOS+kde is perfect! To start with a c.i. has pretty basic computer needs, surf the web, do email & d/l p__n  . So point & click 2 or 3 apps can't get much easier. Plus those basic apps are generally stable. You've got your friendly little removable media notifier to help you browse your usb thingie, & your friendly neighborhood pclinuxos.com for the rest. I think most people who are adventurous enough to give linux a go are prepared for some learning & change. Otherwise they'd stick with the other OS. (or dual boot  ) Giv'em some credit!
Adapatability & readiness to embrace some change will take you far. (I repeat that to myself 100xa day!)
Have fun vc.
John

[denoobifyme]

At one point vc asked, "What could be simpler than right-clicking on a device and clicking Safely Remove?" So far, posts like "open up an entirely new window (Dolphin), configure it for tabs, click the eject button," or "kde isn't designed to be a file manager, stop expecting it to," don't address the question at all.  They're telling VC what he already experiences and is frustrated by: KDE used to work this way, it doesn't any more and you're stuck with it until 4.4 comes out, which may or may not address this issue.

Unless some later version of KDE restores that right-click-safely-remove option his "what could be simpler" question will remain unanswered, and his "stuck with unnecessarily complicated methods" frustration will continue. This is unfortunate.

(chuckling) And "KDE4 is no more complicated than Windows 7" is hardly a selling point for either one.

[muungwana]

denoobifyme,

he wants the "media:/" kio slave to be back in konqueror. He is told that konqueror is no longer a file manager and can not be expected to have full capabilities of file manager. He is also told that the kio slave was broken by design and it caused more problems than it solved.

Insisting on having a feature that is broken because he doesnt use it in a way that bring out the flaws in its design is not being very considerate. Other things he complained about are already addressed and will show up in KDE SC 4.4

Konqueror can no longer handle removable devices and dolphin and device notifier are the only two alternatives .. the best we can do is give solutions if they exist or workarounds to problems.

Mentioning feelings and opinions here is not going to change anything and it forces people to look over them and pay attention to technical aspects of the thread

what are we to do with complains on things we cant change? or opinions/feelings we dont share? what use are they in support questions?

[vc]

denoobifyme,

he wants the "media:/" kio slave to be back in konqueror.

I did not say that, muungwana.  I expressed a wish for the functionality to be restored - nothing more.  You have assumed that I was referring to kioslaves, as they were the means by which such functionality was implemented in KDE3; however, are those kioslaves the only means of such implementation?  Are you saying in effect that there is absolutely no other way or means by which the KDE development team could re-implement such functionality?

He is told that konqueror is no longer a file manager and can not be expected to have full capabilities of file manager.

In KDE3, Konqueror was a poor excuse for a web browser, but also an excellent file manager - one of the best, I believe.  Now, in KDE4, Konqueror is neither - and Dolphin as a file manager is clearly inadequate.  I have merely pointed this fact out - initially with some excess of emotion, perhaps, but truthfully, nevertheless.  Would you rather I remain silent on this issue entirely, and live with the consequent lie of it?  I should not.

He is also told that the kio slave was broken by design and it caused more problems than it solved.

So how then were so many able to make actual use of them, regardless?  I know that the kioslaves were somewhat broken; in fact, I had posted a question addressing that issue previously on this forum.  I was still able to make good use of them regardless - yes, having to refresh Konqueror so often was indeed an annoyance, but that did not mean they were entirely broken.  The KDE team had at least two options:  either fix them, or else implement their functionality in some other manner.  Unfortunately though, they chose instead to do neither - and then seemingly expected that we would all somehow be 'happy' with that decision.

what are we to do with complains on things we cant change? or opinions/feelings we dont share? what use are they in support questions?

What use are they?  They serve as an indication of areas that may need additional improvement - areas that are causing undue amounts of grief and troubles.  What do you do with them, if they refer to matters you cannot change?  Pass them on to those who are able to effect the change.  That is my suggestion, and also my wish.

[vc]

This will mean I can let new users get on and use their new systems in the knowledge that my phone won't be ringing off the hook with questions.

That is my goal also, thorper.  I do appreciate your input regarding this, as my own means or style of statement seems somewhat one-sided otherwise.

Hopefully the KDE developers will take on board the comments and criticisms from KDE4 users whichever distribution they use, as vc previously suggested, and make KDE4 as friendly and easy to use as KDE3. After all linux is a community not a dictatorship unlike other operating systems (not mentioning any names).

That is precisely the point!  I do not know whatever the KDE development team believe their ultimate goal is, but with the advent of KDE4 it does seem to have somehow become alarmingly autocratic in nature.

[Archie]

FWIW, here's my take on Device Notifier/Manager. It is a useful widget; helpful and most of the time dependable. As with many other users, I removed the widget and look forward to Dolphin to mount, browse and eject. It's just another way of doing the same thing.

I looked around to see what could be done and I have not much success so I guess the widget stays removed until it's "fixed".

[Was_Just19]

Putting aside the manner in which a lot of info has been presented, I have to say that the present scheme of things most certainly does not suit me either.

I may be missing some plugin or something but here is an example .....

I have a USB stick which I wish to reformat or otherwise work upon.
In KDE 3 I would
Plug it in, and wait a short interval for an icon to appear on my Desktop
I would right click on the icon and get information about that device/partition.
From there I would do what I needed to do in a terminal, maybe using fdisk or other utility.

In KDE4 I have not found a method to easily determine the details of the plugged in device.
For instance how do I determine the /dev  node of the device? Where is it shown after inserting the device?

That is just one simple example of me being lost in KDE4.
Maybe there is indeed a simple answer which does not include launching GUI apps and so on.
Yes I can use fdisk in a terminal .... but this is not so certain when you have several flash sticks of the same size plugged in.
At times I wish to mount or unmount a partition, but at others I wish to safely remove the device -- which means unmounting ALL its partitions before removal.
I have not found a method for this either.

One thing I remember that may give us some hope ........  in KDE3 it was easy to add an option to the right click menu to mount/unmount and another to safely remove.
I suspect such will be the case in KDE4 when we learn where all this stuff is and how to edit it ....... at least I hope so!

regards.

[Was_Just19]

On the same subject of removable media ......  those of you with two optical drives might confirm this ......

I insert an audio CD into one drive and I can browse the CD with Dolphin (or Konqueror)

I put the same CD into the second drive, Dolphin shows it in the left pane, identifies it as an audio CD (icon in right pane) but cannot display its contents!
Tells me it cannot be read!

The options presented from the tray icon do not include opening with Dolphin.
If I launch Dolphin and click on the CD entry in the left pane, Dolphin will display 
audio:/
in the navigation bar (if enabled).

I cannot seem to find a mount point for this CD in the second optical drive.
Which is probably why Dolphin cannot display its contents!

EDIT
          A video DVD mounts properly and displays properly in the file manager using a mount point.


regards.

[fraxinus]

In KDE4 I have not found a method to easily determine the details of the plugged in device.
For instance how do I determine the /dev  node of the device? Where is it shown after inserting the device?

That is just one simple example of me being lost in KDE4.
Maybe there is indeed a simple answer which does not include launching GUI apps and so on.
Yes I can use fdisk in a terminal .... but this is not so certain when you have several flash sticks of the same size plugged in.

I agree fully - this is another aspect of a concern that I have raised before.
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,65725.msg533554.html#msg533554

I do appreciate that distros have to take what they are given by the KDE team. If we want to try and influence stuff like this, I guess that the KDE forum is the place for us to go. However, it will be interesting to see whether or not the imminent KDE 4.4 offers any improvements in this area.

[vc]

I agree fully - this is another aspect of a concern that I have raised before.
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,65725.msg533554.html#msg533554

Interesting.  In that thread, I read entries such as:

Just my take on it, smileeb.  I'm with 'ya ten thousand percent.  Why those KDE developers would totally scramble the interface is beyond me.  Dolphin sucks, compared to Konqueror in 3.5.
There is nothing intuitive about it.  Can't imagine why they would force this lame 'update' (ha) upon the users who chose it over Redmond's crap.
All I can imagine is, the geeks created an interface that only a geek could love;  to hell with the users.

Oh, really?  Strange - I basically post the same sentiments, minus the profanities, and get admonished, cautioned, warned, and told that "feelings have no place in a support forum".  Where is the justice?  Perhaps just for my apparently 'special' case, someone should resurrect the old html <blink> tag from a dozen years back and amend my alias' membership description line to read "Kick me, I'm an Idiot!!" in large flashing red capital letters, instead!

I do appreciate that distros have to take what they are given by the KDE team.

I am sorry to disagree, fraxinus, but I fail to appreciate such.  I believe that distro development teams have choices, as do ordinary users - and that the range of choices available would certainly include the choice of outright refusal to accept the direction that KDE has taken.  Indeed; I believe that if a considerable number of distro development teams would have had the courage to do so in the first place, then the KDE development team in turn would have had no recourse other than to change their tune entirely, and amend their attitude accordingly.

Enough.  I see no resolution to this thread, and (for my own part, at least) no point in continuing it.