Tackling the Taskbar: the underline of _frustration_!

[T6]

i have the second situation you mention and inkscape takes 31 seconds(faster than before) in this semprom 2600 at 1599 mhz

it seems that for me 1 minute is the same as half minute 

[AndrzejL]

I have measured it with stop watch 12.92 secs exactly. So 13 is the magic number.

CPU: Single core 1.5 GHz Intel Celeron M (No speedstepping enabled - running 1.5 GHz all the time)
RAM: 2 Gigs
GPU: Intel 915
MBO: Acer Travelmate 2420 Laptop...

Its a turtle... BUT lately I have noticed miracles. From the OO.o quickstarter I have the Writer in about 7 secs + - 2 secs (It took much more then that before). Firefox is much faster now too. What changed? GCC while back and I have moved to kde4 AND i uninstalled gtk-oxygen-molecule AND I have disabled speedsteping for my CPU it was running half speed all the time and was kind of sluggish...

Andy

[cozzykim]

"- Inkscape takes a long time to start up (more than a minute) on this machine;"

in mine too, something is not right with a library but since i don't know alot about this app, can't be sure, one thing i can tell you, it has been behaving like this for at least 5 months

from what you say it seems that you are advancing to this goal so ptience is all i can say

about the two years, under kde3 or kde4?

if you don't like the taskbar, just set it to autohide or remove it and use alternatives, there is a couple of those plasmoids

It takes about 15 seconds here and my machine is not even close to be fast... What I have noticed is... IF you have the gtk-oxygen-molecule installed - you have no problem with thunderbird and firefox BUT your gtk applications are taking ages to come up. BUT if you have gtk-qt-engine installed BUT set to use qt-curve instead of KDE theme it all looks nice / you dont have problems with firefox and thunderbird / and the gtk applications are 10 times faster...

Could this be... Dont know... You tell me .

Andy

Genius

I've been wondering why Thunderbird was slowing down, scrollbars taking 5 seconds to react; Synaptic taking 45 seconds to start etc.

In fact the whole machine seemed to have got sluggish 

I installed gtk-qt-engine (which uninstalls gtk-oxygen-molecule) and selected qt-curve  everything just got snappy again and qt-curve looks really nice, I missed it.

I'm happy now (for now)

Thanks Andy, once again you saved the day.

[AndrzejL]

glad I could help for now

Andy

[vc]

about the two years, under kde3 or kde4?

if you don't like the taskbar, just set it to autohide or remove it and use alternatives, there is a couple of those plasmoids

Under KDE3 - which afforded the illusion of transparency, but still couldn't deliver the real thing (true transparency, which is the effect I seek.).

Autohiding in KDE4 is worrying me - those tales of the taskbar never coming back from hiding, et al.  I do wish to make use of it, but I can't run the risk of the taskbar panel suddenly deciding to go on a permanent vacation!  Neither do I wish for half/all of the icons in it vanishing suddenly, such as the experience I had with SuSE 11.2 recently....

Why is the taskbar panel in KDE4 so bloody problematic, and what are the alternatives, anyway?  Most of the 'docks' I've seen are either huge or enormous, in comparison - I like the taskbar; it's the most important part of the whole desktop, to me, and I must learn how to make it behave in the manner I seek.  Because the original EeePC has such a low-res display, I need to make the taskbar as unobtrusive as possible, yet fully-functional in all ways.

It takes about 15 seconds here and my machine is not even close to be fast... What I have noticed is... IF you have the gtk-oxygen-molecule installed - you have no problem with thunderbird and firefox BUT your gtk applications are taking ages to come up. BUT if you have gtk-qt-engine installed BUT set to use qt-curve instead of KDE theme it all looks nice / you dont have problems with firefox and thunderbird / and the gtk applications are 10 times faster...

Could this be... Dont know... You tell me .

I haven't got a clue, Andy; you're referring to matters of which I am not yet aware of - all I really wish to do here is to tame the bloody taskbar.  The installation is both stock, and fresh:  a spare 4GB drive; basic Minime09 install, then full updating; switchover to KDE4, then updated again - and now sitting still pretty much in that state, aside from my ham-fisted efforts at 'customising' the appearance of the blasted thing.  So; whatever the devs have graciously given us is still there, in the configuration they had intended - and at this point, I wouldn't have clue zero regarding how to go about switching the graphics engine anyway.

All I wish to do right now is to make the taskbar completely transparent - that's it.  So far, aside from the background for the 'Notifications and Jobs' button I've managed to clear out the system tray already, but the taskbar panel itself remains resistant to all of my efforts.  The KDE manual that JohnW had directed me towards was indeed helpful; however, I'm discovering that the theming layout in our PCLinuxOS KDE4 variant does not seem to be set up in the KDE way that the manual describes.  PCLinuxOS seems to be doing it in a different way somehow, so at this point I am hoping that some dev who was directly involved with such may kindly step forward and point me towards the appropriate direction.

[T6]

"Autohiding in KDE4 is worrying me - those tales of the taskbar never coming back from hiding, et al."

kde3 never did this and kde4 the few time i did used it didn't do it either

i think you are talking about windows xp 

"Why is the taskbar panel in KDE4 so bloody problematic"

that is your opinion trying to do a transparent taksbar, not a fact

i, as one of the most hit hard users i haven't had a single problem with it

"and what are the alternatives, anyway? "

do a search on the kde4 section, you will find many posts discussing options

"Because the original EeePC has such a low-res display, I need to make the taskbar as unobtrusive as possible, yet fully-functional in all ways."

autohide is a option here, there is a option or a plasmoid that shows/hide plasmoids, can't remember which one is

[cozzykim]

I have measured it with stop watch 12.92 secs exactly. So 13 is the magic number.

CPU: Single core 1.5 GHz Intel Celeron M (No speedstepping enabled - running 1.5 GHz all the time)
RAM: 2 Gigs
GPU: Intel 915
MBO: Acer Travelmate 2420 Laptop...

Its a turtle... BUT lately I have noticed miracles. From the OO.o quickstarter I have the Writer in about 7 secs + - 2 secs (It took much more then that before). Firefox is much faster now too. What changed? GCC while back and I have moved to kde4 AND i uninstalled gtk-oxygen-molecule AND I have disabled speedsteping for my CPU it was running half speed all the time and was kind of sluggish...

Andy

Inkscape now taking 12 secs, Gimp 9 secs.

Similar specs to yours except 1.6GHz and ATI Rage Mobility 7500 32MB

[AndrzejL]

All I wish to do right now is to make the taskbar completely transparent - that's it.  So far, aside from the background for the 'Notifications and Jobs' button I've managed to clear out the system tray already, but the taskbar panel itself remains resistant to all of my efforts.  The KDE manual that JohnW had directed me towards was indeed helpful; however, I'm discovering that the theming layout in our PCLinuxOS KDE4 variant does not seem to be set up in the KDE way that the manual describes.  PCLinuxOS seems to be doing it in a different way somehow, so at this point I am hoping that some dev who was directly involved with such may kindly step forward and point me towards the appropriate direction.

VC

What I can tell You as an advise is to wait. KDE4 is still IMHO fresh. Its new. Its buggy. I wish that there was some simple solution for your problem but I know none. I am sorry to tell You this. Soon (I hope really soon) KDE4 will be developed to the point where is actually will be mature and bug free. It will happen but its not today or tomorrow. I am getting used to the KDE4 myself and I am still struggling (just like You) to deal with some issues. I havent found the way to make taskbar 100% transparent. My advise is to register with KDE forum at http://forum.kde.org and find appropriate section and start topic there. Why? Dont get me wrong I am not trying to push You away or to tell You to go and deal with it Yourself. What I am trying to tell You is that if You need  to get the answer for KDE advanced settings then the KDE is where You should be. If You want to repair a car you go to the garage. But if You want to repair a certain engine for a certain car the best way to get it done is to go to the licensed garage of the company that sold You the car. We are all getting used to the KDE4 while they are actually developing it (they have created it and know it from the scratch).

Dont know if this is any good to You my friend but its the best that I can do. This and the promise that if I will ever figure out the solution You will hear from me. But till then...

Andy

[vc]

Inkscape now taking 12 secs, Gimp 9 secs.

Similar specs to yours except 1.6GHz and ATI Rage Mobility 7500 32MB

I'm really quite lost with this turn of the conversation, but I am very much interested in optimising for speed on a 'low-end' machine - could you suggest a brief step-by-step, please?

What I can tell You as an advise is to wait. KDE4 is still IMHO fresh. Its new. Its buggy.

I wish I could, but they've killed KDE3 already - and PCLinuxOS is ditching KDE3 as well now, apparently.

I wish that there was some simple solution for your problem but I know none. My advise is to register with KDE forum at http://forum.kde.org and find appropriate section and start topic there.

At this point, I am so angered by KDE that I'm not sure if that would be productive or not.  I think it far more likely that they'd either ignore me completely, or else tell me that it's bound to be a problem with the way that the PCLinuxOS team implemented it.  I am an older person, cranky and opinionated; well-grounded in habit and highly resistant towards unnecessary change - and I view the move that KDE has made as being a heinous and highly-irresponsible act indeed.  In the Windows world, this would be comparable to Microsoft announcing a complete abandonment of all XP support on the day that Vista was released - indeed; KDE4 is the linux Vista equivalent, only even more so.  This move should drive away the n00bs for at least a couple more years, I think, by which time the entire desktop computing paradigm shall likely be rendered obsolete anyway.

I am simply attempting to get as much out of it as I may in the meantime.

[cozzykim]

"I'm really quite lost with this turn of the conversation, but I am very much interested in optimising for speed on a 'low-end' machine - could you suggest a brief step-by-step, please?"

Sorry to hijack your thread vc 

I just started noticing the slowdown on my machine in the last few days after changing themes, video drivers, window decs etc.

Following Andy's suggestions has brought the machine back up to speed and now I have Compiz running again giving me some desktop effects.

The speed has something to do with oxygen-molecule versus gtk-qt-engine/qt-curve instead of KDE theme.

My apps are now starting about 5 times faster  and things like scrollbars are responding much faster - go figure 

[vc]

"I'm really quite lost with this turn of the conversation, but I am very much interested in optimising for speed on a 'low-end' machine - could you suggest a brief step-by-step, please?"

Sorry to hijack your thread vc 

I just started noticing the slowdown on my machine in the last few days after changing themes, video drivers, window decs etc.

Following Andy's suggestions has brought the machine back up to speed and now I have Compiz running again giving me some desktop effects.

The speed has something to do with oxygen-molecule versus gtk-qt-engine/qt-curve instead of KDE theme.

My apps are now starting about 5 times faster  and things like scrollbars are responding much faster - go figure 

Assume for the moment that I am completely unfamiliar - exactly how did you do it, please?  Also, would this change survive any updatings?

[cozzykim]

"I'm really quite lost with this turn of the conversation, but I am very much interested in optimising for speed on a 'low-end' machine - could you suggest a brief step-by-step, please?"

Sorry to hijack your thread vc 

I just started noticing the slowdown on my machine in the last few days after changing themes, video drivers, window decs etc.

Following Andy's suggestions has brought the machine back up to speed and now I have Compiz running again giving me some desktop effects.

The speed has something to do with oxygen-molecule versus gtk-qt-engine/qt-curve instead of KDE theme.

My apps are now starting about 5 times faster  and things like scrollbars are responding much faster - go figure 

Assume for the moment that I am completely unfamiliar - exactly how did you do it, please?  Also, would this change survive any updatings?

Open Synaptic and Search for gtk-qt-engine, if you don't already have it then install it, it will uninstall oxygen-molecule.

You can then find the GTK Theme switcher in >System>Configuration>Other>GTK Theme Switch.

I also had Compiz installed already >System>Configuration>Compiz

Sorry, but although I could find my way around KDE3, I'm a total KDE4 noob, I've trashed my desktop more than once in the last month since I upgraded 

Test these options at your own risk mate

[AndrzejL]

At this point, I am so angered by KDE that I'm not sure if that would be productive or not.  I think it far more likely that they'd either ignore me completely, or else tell me that it's bound to be a problem with the way that the PCLinuxOS team implemented it.  I am an older person, cranky and opinionated; well-grounded in habit and highly resistant towards unnecessary change - and I view the move that KDE has made as being a heinous and highly-irresponsible act indeed.  In the Windows world, this would be comparable to Microsoft announcing a complete abandonment of all XP support on the day that Vista was released - indeed; KDE4 is the linux Vista equivalent, only even more so.  This move should drive away the n00bs for at least a couple more years, I think, by which time the entire desktop computing paradigm shall likely be rendered obsolete anyway.

I am simply attempting to get as much out of it as I may in the meantime.

I do understand what You're feeling 100%. 2 years ago I was starting with Linux and I was very very very frustrated user. I know that You are not a troll that just complains for no reason. You just want to have things done and You're annoyed by the fact that You cant achieve this goal. I believe that I have exploaded few times in my noobie times myself and that now it does not happen anymore. Why? Because the fact that I am getting angry / cranky / grumpy / etc... changes nothing... Well nothing good comes from it anyway. When people see angry / aggressive posts they turn around and refuse to help. They have enough stress in their private life. They do not want to get more of it coz someone on the forum is having a bad period in life... I know I have made that mistake few times... Some people dont like me because I had (still have) a tendency to complain. If I dont like it I complain. If I am feeling that something is wrong... I complain... I refused to upgrade to kde4 till 2 or 3 weeks ago. I made that move now and its a love hate relationship. I love some of the features and I hate some of the features. Everyday i find a new things and everyday I am thinking of what will happen to the KDE in the future... You dont like changes... Thats me. I hate making difficult decisions. I hate changes. New is not always good.

What You have to understand is that the problem You are experiencing is a change. Change is a dangerous game but its inevitable... I loved MS Windows 2000 and I disliked XP and hated the followers... They were all changing. I could do nothing about it. I once thought that KDE4 is a Linux Vista version. No its not... Trust me. Its just a matter of time and we will have another upgrade. Then another. Then another... And then someone will say ah KDE4 is stable at last. Everyone will be happy and someone will say GUYS we have a great news. KDE5 beta is out... And some of us will be happy as a puppies and some of us will be complaining BUT before this happens KDE4 will be rock solid. Trust me.

Hang in there just like I am. We will get what we want eventually.

Andy

Sorry about hijacking the thread a bit before.

ABOUT the GTK theme and speeding up GTK applications...

Open synaptic package manager and search for package gtk-qt-engine
Mark it for installation (oxygen-molecule will be removed with it)
Reboot
Open KMenu > System > Configuration > Configure Your Desktop
Find and Click Look and Feel > Appearance > Gtk Themes and Fonts
in GTK Styles choose Use another style and pick QtCurve
in GTK Fonts choose Use KDE fonts in my GTK applications
Click Install scrolbar fix below
Click apply
Reboot or restart X server.

Try opening Firefox / Synaptic / Gimp / Inkscape... See the difference in speed? Like it? If You do... Keep it if no...

Open synaptic. Find and install GTK-Oxygen-Molecule (gtk-qt-engine will be removed) and reboot. This will bring You back where You are now.

Andy

[vc]

Open Synaptic and Search for gtk-qt-engine, if you don't already have it then install it, it will uninstall oxygen-molecule.

Done now - however; oxygen-molecule does not seem to have been installed in the first place, as the gtk-qt-engine install didn't remove anything, and a subsequent check in Synaptic showed oxygen-molecule to be unchecked already.

You can then find the GTK Theme switcher in >System>Configuration>Other>GTK Theme Switch.

Nope - rebooted already, but I still don't see anything there, other than the previously-existing entries... no gtk-anything there, I'm afraid.

I also had Compiz installed already >System>Configuration>Compiz

I'd not bothered with compiz, as the default KDE compositing seemed to be working already, and aside from the transparency I'm not all that interested in the rest of the 'eye-candy' anyway.

Sorry, but although I could find my way around KDE3, I'm a total KDE4 noob, I've trashed my desktop more than once in the last month since I upgraded 

Test these options at your own risk mate

Same here, re. KDE4 n00biness - but there's really no risk, cozzykim; the machine it's on is nothing more than a test-bed, and I'm not at all averse to re-installing.

[Wildman]

Inkscape now taking 12 secs, Gimp 9 secs.

Similar specs to yours except 1.6GHz and ATI Rage Mobility 7500 32MB

I'm really quite lost with this turn of the conversation, but I am very much interested in optimising for speed on a 'low-end' machine - could you suggest a brief step-by-step, please?

What I can tell You as an advise is to wait. KDE4 is still IMHO fresh. Its new. Its buggy.

I wish I could, but they've killed KDE3 already - and PCLinuxOS is ditching KDE3 as well now, apparently.

I wish that there was some simple solution for your problem but I know none. My advise is to register with KDE forum at http://forum.kde.org and find appropriate section and start topic there.

At this point, I am so angered by KDE that I'm not sure if that would be productive or not.  I think it far more likely that they'd either ignore me completely, or else tell me that it's bound to be a problem with the way that the PCLinuxOS team implemented it.  I am an older person, cranky and opinionated; well-grounded in habit and highly resistant towards unnecessary change - and I view the move that KDE has made as being a heinous and highly-irresponsible act indeed.  In the Windows world, this would be comparable to Microsoft announcing a complete abandonment of all XP support on the day that Vista was released - indeed; KDE4 is the linux Vista equivalent, only even more so.  This move should drive away the n00bs for at least a couple more years, I think, by which time the entire desktop computing paradigm shall likely be rendered obsolete anyway.

I am simply attempting to get as much out of it as I may in the meantime.

Gee therew for a minute I thought I was reading about myself!  Description sure fits!