Trouble Detecting Wireless Networks

[kenboldt]

Hello, I apologize in advance for the lack of specific details that is about to follow, but I have a free moment at work, and wanted to get this topic started before I forgot again.  I am having problems detecting wireless networks as you might have gathered from the topic subject.

I have both a Desktop and a Laptop, desktop has a atheros card, and laptop has realtek (spelling?).  The situation is this.  I have recently moved into a basement apartment, and the home owner has a wireless router set up so that I can connect and use their internet connection.  There is also an XP laptop in the house that has zero issues with seeing the network and connecting.

I have successfully connected to the network at least once with both my desktop and laptop, however, it seems almost random whether or not they can see the network listed when I scan for networks.  The desktop in particular seems to rarely be able to actually see the network.

When I get home tonight, or in the near future, I can try and run any commands that anyone can suggest, or provide any detailed information.  Like I said, I am at work right now, so I can't really try anything, but I am desperately hoping that someone might be able to provide assistance or at least share some ideas.

For the record, I have previously had no problems connecting to my own wireless router with either of these computers.  If I plug in my own router, even though it has no connection to the outside world, both computers can see it and can connect flawlessly.  Additionally, both computers seem to have no problems seeing the home owner's own wireless network, but I do not have the network key to get on that one.  It is only the network for me that I am having issues with. 

The Laptop has had far less issues.  Most of the time it sees the network fine, and connects without issue, but the desktop barely ever sees the network.  When it does see it, I can connect fine, have a strong signal, and everything works fine, but most of the time it simply does not see the network.

[Joble]

If one of them is an rt2870, and if it is a driver problem, and it's not a router or encryption issue, there was a similar situation solved here:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,62074.msg501493.html#msg501493
by switching to ndiswrapper.

[Was_Just19]

You have not told us the location of the router you are trying to connect to ..... is it far from your PCs locations?

At the times the Laptop cannot find the signal, have you walked about with it to see if maybe it is the signal that is getting bounced about and causing the problem?

It may also be some other device in the building that is interfering when it is switched on .....

One last thing ..... is the SSID on the router being broadcast?  If not maybe try that to see if things improve.

[kenboldt]

@Joble:
Thanks for the response, and the link.  I will have a look tonight at what the chipsets are when I get a chance, and if there is a match, I will look through that thread.

@Johnboy
I do not think this is the problem, as I can have the two computers, side by side, and one will see the network with a strong signal, and the other won't see it at all, then later, it might be reversed, and then other times, neither can see it.  Like I said, when they see it, the signal is strong, and there is no trouble connecting, when they can see it.  My computers are located in the basement, and the router is on the main floor of the house, so there is a bit of a distance, but again, I can see the home owner's network no problem, all the time, I just don't have the key to connect to that network.  I don't know for sure, but I can assume with a good deal of certainty, that the router broadcasting my network and whatever is broadcasting their network, are located in the same area in the house.

You could be right, and it could be some physical blocking of the signal that is the issue, but the randomness of the signal showing up or not, and the strength of it when it does show up makes me think that isn't the issue.  I mean, I have done a refresh of the networks, and have it not there, then refresh, and it is there, then refresh and it is gone again, all in the span of 30 seconds, late at night when people are in bed and not moving about.  It seems weird that there would be something moving in those 30 seconds that would allow me to see it then not see it again.

I suppose I am more optimistic that you AREN'T right because if you are right it means I don't have a lot of options.  At least if it is a software problem it is fixable right.  

[Was_Just19]

If perchance I am on the right path it may be easily fixed ....... by changing the 'channel' the router is on.
Interference may be electrical and not physical as in people moving about. It may also be due to the physical structure interfering.

I have had two PCs side by side, one with a good signal and the second intermittent ---- if one PC loses the signal it may take a little time to find it again, if it is present.

I suggest you move the PCs for a short while to see if you get any difference in connections.

I did not suspect the PCs because you intimated that they both worked well previously, and still work with a router close-by.

I would look to
1. Broadcast ESSID
2. Channel change
3. Physical position of the router you are trying to connect to.

From your description one or more of those would be my first port of call.

Something else you might try ...... maybe connect your router to the household one with an ethernet cable and try to connect your PCs to your own router  .......  you know they will when it is close-by, so it would be a valid test.
The household router's signal may be weak and intermittent in the basement and you may have better luck with your own one.

[kenboldt]

Johnboy, I am starting to agree with you more and more.  I will likely try and talk to the home owner in the near future and see if there is any way they could relocate the router closer to our area of the house, and/or connect a cable between their router and mine, so that I can just run off mine.  It seems that with either of the two computers I can only detect a weak signal at best, regardless of position in the apartment, time of day, etc...

One thing that still seems puzzling to me though, is that last night, as I was playing with things, trying to get it all to work, I had my own router hooked up, and it was sitting on top of my desk, with my desktop computer tower sitting underneath the same desk.  There is therefore only a single slab of wood, and about 3 feet separating the router and the wireless card in the desktop, yet the strongest signal I saw was on the order of 60%.  Meanwhile, my wife's XP laptop can be anywhere in the apartment and have all bars full with the signal reading "very strong" for that same router and network.

I have noticed this in the past with a laptop that I used to dual boot, that when in XP I would get a strong signal, and then in PCLOS (or any linux variant for that matter), the signal for the same laptop, in the same physical position, with the same wireless card, would be far weaker.  Is there something about Linux that it has trouble detecting wireless signals?

[kenboldt]

If one of them is an rt2870, and if it is a driver problem, and it's not a router or encryption issue, there was a similar situation solved here:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,62074.msg501493.html#msg501493
by switching to ndiswrapper.

the realtek card is something like rt8###, not rt2###, so I am guessing I do not have the same issues, though I thank you for the suggestion.  As per my post above, I am starting to think that Johnboy is on the right path, which is contrary to my post before that. 

[Was_Just19]

I have noticed this in the past with a laptop that I used to dual boot, that when in XP I would get a strong signal, and then in PCLOS (or any linux variant for that matter), the signal for the same laptop, in the same physical position, with the same wireless card, would be far weaker.  Is there something about Linux that it has trouble detecting wireless signals?

Not that I am aware of generally.
It has been noted before that the signal levels displayed by different OSs vary quite a bit.

I have never seen a good explanation for it .... though many suggestions were put forward, one simply being  different measuring and display levels.

For instance I have a wireless dongle plugged into my Desktop here on a 'flying' lead and it sits less than three feet from the router, on the same shelf. That router has twin aerials and can be connected to quite easily from the other end of the house and on a different floor ...... maybe 30 to 40 feet away and through structural material.
Yet my wee icon on my Desktop tray shows the signal strength as 61%

I can change to a different router maybe 15 feet away and through structural material, but on the same level, and it reads 58%.
The second router has one aerial, is closer by maybe 10 feet to the other end of the house, but the PC there cannot use it as it will not maintain signal. (that may be due to the weakness of the transmitter in the remote PC I suppose).

The point of all that was of course to point out that my signal level shows just 61% although the devises are almost next to each other.
I do not bother with the actual signal level shown ..... if it is green and stable then all is well IMO.

What I have posted is just opinion and may not be applicable in your case, but if I were in your position I would be inclined to test the connection with the laptop in various locations ..... even outside the premises ... to see if the signal was more reliable in different physical locations.

regards.

[jrmch]

Hi There,

The biggest bugbear with wireless networks is that there are so many of them and the wireless system cannot cope with multiple wireless routers tx'ing and rx'ing in proximity with one another.

Check out how many wireless networks your configuration process can detect - if it's 2 or more, you can easily have random 'drop out' problems.

There's nothing wrong with your hardware or set-up if you've had the system running. Again, if the system has run, there's nothing wrong with where the router is situated.

If the problem persists, the simplest solution is an ethernet (hard wire) connection but that can be a hassle.

Hope this helps

jrmch

[efc321]

I know of two things for you to try. 

If the router is using WPA encryption ask them  to change from WPA TKIP to AES.  This solved  my problem like yours.  The up side is that AES is more secure than TKIP.  But for some reason my older routers default to TKIP. 

Not certiant if it is ok to to mention a website for a product here but it is the best place to go if you need long distance wireless.  http://home.comcast.net/~hughpep/   A cantena helps a lot with long distance wifi. 

[coolbreeze]

I know of two things for you to try.  

If the router is using WPA encryption ask them  to change from WPA TKIP to AES.  This solved  my problem like yours.  The up side is that AES is more secure than TKIP.  But for some reason my older routers default to TKIP.  

Not certiant if it is ok to to mention a website for a product here but it is the best place to go if you need long distance wireless.  http://home.comcast.net/~hughpep/   A cantena helps a lot with long distance wifi.  

At $68's,Nah, the guy who's selling that is ripping off, you could build one for about $10 or less,
 http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html

[Animal]

Just to toss my .02 cents in the ring.

You'd be surprised how much electrical interference there is in a typical home. Cordless phones, microwaves, and stray electrical signals. I know around my home there are times that in the same location day after day my signal strength can vary from a low of 52% to 97%.

I have had to reset the router on occasion just to get things straightened out, theres 5 computers fighting for the signal not htat it makes a difference.

I'd try moving your box/top around to different locations, have your home owner move the router (even a few feet can make a heck of a difference sometimes, change your channel, or run a cat5 if you can (although kind of inconvenient) it you can.

I know I'm just echoing whats been said already but it doesn't hurt to have several in agreement.

[kenboldt]

Thanks to everyone for the responses.  I do believe now that the problem is with positioning and interferences.  I will likely be speaking with the home owner at some point about options for moving the router, changing the broadcast channel, and/or running a cable to the basement so that I can hook up my own router and connect to it.

Another option I have thought of, but don't know the reliability of, is buying a range extender.  Sometimes they are called range boosters, or repeaters.  If anyone has any experience with them, and their quality, I would appreciate some feedback.

[coolbreeze]

Thanks to everyone for the responses.  I do believe now that the problem is with positioning and interferences.  I will likely be speaking with the home owner at some point about options for moving the router, changing the broadcast channel, and/or running a cable to the basement so that I can hook up my own router and connect to it.

Another option I have thought of, but don't know the reliability of, is buying a range extender.  Sometimes they are called range boosters, or repeaters.  If anyone has any experience with them, and their quality, I would appreciate some feedback.

Don't blame you asking for opinions on range boosters at $65+, here's some, but it's dated 2007, didn't see any later:-  http://www.everythingusb.com/hfield_wi-fire_13167.html

[Was_Just19]

Is your router capable of 'repeater' mode?  Might be the answer, but you would still have to position it somewhere in the main house it seems.

I think your best bet is to see about changing the position (and channel?) of the existing router ... or adding your own router via a cable as you indicated.

I would definitely exhaust those options before considering a repeater.

regards.