K9 is working for me on standard dvd's, will have to try out philld methods on dual layer, thanks for the input. I think my problem with k9 was actually settings in k3b being different than default settings were in kde3.5 version. I never had to change anything with kde 3.5 version of k3b, just worked. Talk about a lot of reboots to look at any possible setting differences in the two versions. I think I am all kde4 now, no reason to go back. (sounds like something I said about M$ a while back). Good info in this thread, thanks to all for the input, and philld for starting it out.