Linus Torvalds Explodes at Red Hat Developer (UEFI argument)

[Phil]

Just watching this thread:

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/02/25/1251236/linus-torvalds-explodes-at-red-hat-developer

...and from El Reg, reading comments....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/24/linus_torvalds_rant/

[horusfalcon]

Hmm... Linus is right to be dismayed.  There's an old saying about Microsoft that says it all:

Beware geeks bearing gifts.

In another thread here that touches on UEFI, (http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,113131.msg969459.html#msg969459) I wondered why Microsoft was playing nice about issuing keys?  It's because they're the ones issuing them - they're in control where they always want to be...  I should have seen it coming.  I'm glad Linus did.

Later On,
D

[Just17]

Maybe now that it has hit the top level, we might see some further action on the whole secure boot fiasco.

Locking down hardware so that the owners cannot run whatever OS/kernel/driver/etc they wish is unacceptable.

Hopefully this 'spat' will cause more attention to be focussed on this abomination that is this secure boot implementation.

[smileeb]

   He sure don't sugar coat his words.   

[Wildman]

True, he does have a very blunt and colored worded way of speaking he mind, and he is usually right as well..

[fraxinus]

I find his choice of language pretty offensive, actually, and I think a high proportion of females reading his comments would do too.

But what he's saying sounds spot on to me. As Just17 points out, perhaps a high-level spat is needed to help move this issue on.

[parnote]

  He sure don't sugar coat his words.   

So true! Sugar coated dog padoodle still tastes like dog padoodle. [You can substitute whatever other word you want for "padoodle."]

I, for one, appreciate Linus's directness, and find his "colorful language" entertaining, to say the least.

parnote

[Tony]

I think Torvalds is in a hard place, he made the Kernel, he maintains the Kernel, along with others, who may just happen to get offside occassionally, like once a month. 

He needs a holiday, if that is at all possible. It's his 'precious' and that's how it is. 

[menotu]

I doubt Mr Torvalds (or rather his posts) wouldn't last long on this forum if he "vented his spleen" like he's apt to

[Just17]

I doubt Mr Torvalds (or rather his posts) wouldn't last long on this forum if he "vented his spleen" like he's apt to

I am sure he is quite capable of expressing himself within the confines of this forum's rules also  

[horusfalcon]

I doubt Mr Torvalds (or rather his posts) wouldn't last long on this forum if he "vented his spleen" like he's apt to

I am sure he is quite capable of expressing himself within the confines of this forum's rules also  

Assuredly.  Profanity is the last refuge of the unimaginative (or, conversely, is the last resort when communicating with the unimaginative).

I can understand Linus' frustration over this.  He's right, you know.  UEFI Secure Boot exists solely to address a problem in Windows, and is being misused by Microsoft to exclude Linux (collateral damage) and Windows XP (the real target) from running on Windows 8-Certified Hardware.  Somewhere in the Halls of Justice, someone should be filing a monopolistic practices lawsuit any day now...

Later On,
D

[AndrzejL]

Oh Linus can be such a drama queen... When he is unhappy the whole world needs to know he is unhappy (like when he wrote "go and die" to Suse devs because they had place a root password request when setting up printer)... and those outbursts... Yeah... And a real PITA to work with / for... He is like this nightmare boss... But then it's his kernel and he is right about the whole cert thing. Just like he was right to give finger to NVidia...

Not the first time he has exploded. Not the last one either. Nothing to get excited - just another day at kernel.org.

He feels strong about something - he expresses it.

He sorta explained it during the talk in Aalto:

Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds [Full-length]

He prefers to be rude (or should I say painfully honest) when he does not likes something so people don't get excited about something he does not like and don't get their hopes up...

Well - I can understand being passionate about something. I can understand emotions skyrocketing... I am torn. I like this fella but he is bit melodramatic...

Like every genius (coz he IS a genius) he is unbearable and irreplaceable in the same time... Trust me... I would know...

Regards.

Andrzej

[frazelle09]

Hmm... i just installed a bare bones for a friend.  Had to replace the ps from TigerDirect.  However i noticed that it is a GA H61M DS2 mobo with dual BIOS and says that it had UEFI.  i used his old hard drive so i just booted up fine.  However had problems with Ethernet RTL8111 so got the bright idea to upgrade to the 2.26 kernel and finally got it working as well.

The only mention in the manuel of UEFI is on pg. 30 where it says under Boot Option Priorities
Removable storage devices that support GPT format will be prefixed with "UEFI" string on the boot device list.  To boot from an operating system that supports GPT partitioning, select the device prefixed with "UEFI" string.
Or if you want to install an operating system that supports GPT partitioning such as Windows 7 64-bit, select the optical drive that contains the Windows 7 64-bit installation disk and is prefixed with "UEFI" string.

i consider myself lucky that i didn't have any problems with this UEFI stuff.

However i can't get into the BIOS screen.  Neither Del nor Esc work.  The system just hangs... When i do see the image it is not complete on my old Dell monitor.  But, since the system works and runs, i'm not about to worry about it.  If it's not broke...

Have a great afternoon! 

[Bald Brick]

I doubt Mr Torvalds (or rather his posts) wouldn't last long on this forum if he "vented his spleen" like he's apt to

I am sure he is quite capable of expressing himself within the confines of this forum's rules also  

Assuredly.  Profanity is the last refuge of the unimaginative (or, conversely, is the last resort when communicating with the unimaginative).

I very much doubt that.

[...] instead of thinking of swearing as uniformly harmful or morally wrong, more meaningful information about swearing can be obtained by asking what communication goals swearing achieves. Swear words can achieve a number of outcomes, as when used positively for joking or storytelling, stress management, fitting in with the crowd, or as a substitute for physical aggression. Recent work by Stephens et al. even shows that swearing is associated with enhanced pain tolerance. This finding suggests swearing has a cathartic effect, which many of us may have personally experienced in frustration or in response to pain. Despite this empirical evidence, the positive consequences of swearing are commonly disregarded in the media.

From: http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/publications/observer/2012/may-june-12/the-science-of-swearing.html.

The degree to which we are offended by profanity is entirely determined by where we live - and perhaps by when we happen to be living - our cultural context, if you will. Many Americans find even mild profanity unacceptable. A probably larger number of Americans don't - or there would be a lot less swearing in major American films. And most Finns aren't easily shocked.

That some people are shocked is something to be grateful for though: if strong language shocked no-one Linus could as well stop using it, it wouldn't have the desired rhetorical effect any more.

But when it comes to family values:

The original justification for our obscenity laws was predicated on an unfounded assumption that speech can deprave or corrupt children, but there is little (if any) social-science data demonstrating that a word in and of itself causes harm. A closely related problem is the manner in which harm has been defined — harm is most commonly framed in terms of standards and sensibilities such as religious values or sexual mores. Rarely are there attempts to quantify harm in terms of objectively measurable symptoms (e.g., sleep disorder, anxiety). Psychological scientists could certainly make a systematic effort to establish behavioral outcomes of swearing.

I can understand Linus' frustration over this.  He's right, you know.  UEFI Secure Boot exists solely to address a problem in Windows, and is being misused by Microsoft to exclude Linux (collateral damage) and Windows XP (the real target) from running on Windows 8-Certified Hardware.  Somewhere in the Halls of Justice, someone should be filing a monopolistic practices lawsuit any day now...

Later On,
D

[gandy]

I have no problem with people using an occasional cuss/curse word. Of course, I grew up surrounded by people who cussed regularly.

What I think shows a lack of intelligence, or maybe just lack of "class", is when a person can't form a sentence without using a cuss word.

I work in an occupation where almost everyone cusses on a regular basis but there are a few people that can't converse without using the "f" word in every sentence.

By the way, many women are capable of keeping up with men in the cussing department. A friend of mine dated a woman that used language that would make most people uncomfortable.

I was told that there's a difference between cussing and swearing. Cussing is just using a vulgar word, swearing is using a word that offends a deity. That may be a cultural thing though. I'm not sure.     

Oops, I forgot this isn't the Sandbox, it's Software Discussion. Yes UEFI sucks (can I say that?) and I think there will have to be some form of litigation to correct this abomination (can I say that?).