Hi! I'm Bill Gates, ...

[Just17]

Bill Gates answers questions on Reddit

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18bhme/im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill_melinda_gates/

[bicol_willem]

Don´t talk about this crook 

Look and listen from about 5.40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVVQy7gQ-oM

Gives a little idea about this "great billionaire".

[dj_bridges]

As a malariologist who lives and works in Zambia, I think calling Gates a crook is way below the belt. I am no fan of M$ or their business practices, but the video you posted simply shows complete ignorance of the real situation. Gates have partnered with Glaxo to accelerate vaccine development. To safeguard prices, they have ensured that Glaxo will only sell the vaccine at cost price +5% (bearing in mind the hundreds of millions of dollars that Glaxo have invested, it will be some time before they recover this investment). Ultimately all companies need to make money / break even. There is no info yet on the pricing for this vaccine - for all we know 5% could be cents. This situation is in marked contrast to the profit driven Western drug markets where products are sold at many times their cost price. As for the vaccine - the fact the same target is being used 30yrs on without a vaccine being finalised shows just how hard it is to vaccinate against malaria. Personally I think the money could have been spent on other approaches, but hindsight is a luxury non one had when the programme started. It is always easy to criticise, but infinitely harder to suggest a better solution.

Bottom line - every day the equivalent of SIX Boeing 747's mostly packed full of children die from malaria. The Gates foundation isn't perfect, but it has literally transformed the world of malaria research and interventions. If you have ever seen a child die from cerebral malaria, you will be glad that anyone is keen to invest in stopping that from happening. I for one am glad the Gates foundation is around...

I could go on, but will stop there!

[bicol_willem]

I really think you didn´t listen Max Keiser out for the details. The truth (really) is different.

Once a crook, always a crook. This one is a proven case. And he goes on .... and on ...  Because when money speaks everybody seems to listening, without any check. (Money is always right, ain´t it?) JMHO

[dj_bridges]

bicol_willem - looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I listened from 5:40 onwards and unfortunately some of the so called facts that they present are either entirely incorrect or they are nothing better than conjecture. For example suggesting that the RTS-S vaccine has been developed as a sub-standard target to breed dependence on repeat immunisations in lieu of developing a higher efficacy vaccine that would be a one-shot wonder is nothing short of libelous. We still only poorly understand how humans develop immunity to malaria and it seems to be very strain specific as the parasite is very successful at hiding from the immune system. Anyway, aside from any detailed arguments, it comes down to this. If you were a smart guy like Bill Gates and your only interest was to make money (whatever the morals) would you decide to invest 10 billion in a system where each recipient would only be able to pay maximum $1 per product, but would need this product every 2 years (these are the numbers that Maz Keiser uses in his so called 'report')? With approximately 2.4 billion people at risk of malaria this means it would take at least 8 years to recoup that initial investment (assuming that everyone is vaccinated and that there were no distribution / production costs which of course would probably dwarf the initial investment). I am afraid it just doesn't hold together and doesn't correlate with reality.... JMHO

[Just17]

If you were a smart guy like Bill Gates and your only interest was to make money (whatever the morals) would you decide to ....

I am not disagreeing with the logic of your post dj_bridges, but you have made an assumption as the basis for your argument, which might be challenged ......

[dj_bridges]

Is that an official challenge Just17 

Aside from money, what are you suggesting the motivation is - kudos? If so Gates didn't need to support RTS-S development to get it. I don't buy it....

[Just17]

I am suggesting there might be other reasons than "only" money for people to do things. It is unsafe to base an argument on a presumption of only one interest. 

[dj_bridges]

I am suggesting there might be other reasons than "only" money for people to do things. It is unsafe to base an argument on a presumption of only one interest.

Well, not if that assumption / presumption is correct. After all there might not be another reason. The question is... is there? So far no-one has suggested anything else and this is beginning to sound a bit like conspiracy theory - all smoke and mirrors!

[menotu]

Altruism ?

[Just17]

I am suggesting there might be other reasons than "only" money for people to do things. It is unsafe to base an argument on a presumption of only one interest.

Well, not if that assumption / presumption is correct. After all there might not be another reason. The question is... is there? So far no-one has suggested anything else and this is beginning to sound a bit like conspiracy theory - all smoke and mirrors!

The fact that no one here had suggested (up to your post) any other motive/interest is no basis to presume such does not exist.

It is up to you to show that no other exists as it is you who made your argument based on no other existing. 

[dj_bridges]

The fact that no one here had suggested (up to your post) any other motive/interest is no basis to presume such does not exist.

True

It is up to you to show that no other exists as it is you who made your argument based on no other existing.  Wink

Actually I couldn't think of any other reason, hence I suggested financial incentives. The spark for this conversation was a video that as far as I could tell failed to give any other motivating factor. So perhaps you need to ask the video makers! Actually, no I am going to ask you Just17 - what do you think? If there are so many holes in my arguments, why not supply some answers.....  I am all ears!

[Just17]

The fact that no one here had suggested (up to your post) any other motive/interest is no basis to presume such does not exist.

True

It is up to you to show that no other exists as it is you who made your argument based on no other existing.  Wink

Actually I couldn't think of any other reason, hence I suggested financial incentives. The spark for this conversation was a video that as far as I could tell failed to give any other motivating factor. So perhaps you need to ask the video makers! Actually, no I am going to ask you Just17 - what do you think? If there are so many holes in my arguments, why not supply some answers.....  I am all ears!

You appear to have forgotten my first comment to you ..

I am not disagreeing with the logic of your post dj_bridges, but you have made an assumption as the basis for your argument, which might be challenged ......

I did not point out holes in your argument, only that the whole basis of the argument is a presumption of a single motivating factor ...  namely money .....  and that this might be challenged. There is no support provided by you that this is the only factor.

[dj_bridges]

Urgghh. This is getting weirder and weirder.

Just17 your logic is that I my comments can be dismissed (or at least challenged) because you say I have made an assumption that there is a single motivating factor and none other. But you are not suggesting there is any other motivating factor so how are you challenging my argument? All you have outlined is that the structure of my argument rests on an assumption? Would it be more valid if it rested on multiple assumptions? How many other motivating factors would I need to rule out to make it 'valid' in your eyes? I don't really get what you are driving at?

Seems more like you are trying to get a rise out of me than actually suggesting an alternative understanding? I am happy to be shown I am wrong, but at the moment you aren't showing me anything.

[inseine]

Another motivating factor? How about eugenics? 

Anyone that thinks injecting toxic compounds into tiny babies is sound medical and ethical practice surely needs to do some serious research!