Windows 8+PCLinuxos

[gezza]

Hi to all,
My laptop HP DV7 series has had so many drives replaced in the last year, the comapany says it will be replaced.
The new system comes with the dreaded Win8 installed.
My question is:--- Will PCLinuxOs work on this system?
Many thanks for your thoughts on this matter.
Gezza

[horusfalcon]

Personally, unless it's a warranty issue, I'd remove Win8 forthwith.  It might do well to view Brian Boyko's Windows 8 Animated Review on Youtube:

Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation

I say your best route if you must keep Win 8 through warranty period is to obtain a second drive somewhere and boot Linux from it, either by swapping it into the bay or by using it in a USB enclosure.

Of course, before doing any of this it would be wise to create an image of the system or otherwise obtain a backup/recovery disk set/etc.

If you must dual-boot, see if HP will let you get Windows 7 instead of Windows 8.

Later ON,
D

[µT6]

"My question is:--- Will PCLinuxOs work on this system?"

you are not saying what system so we can't say if it will or not because we don't know what system isç

about dualboot with windows 8, if the uefi bios will let you load pclinux then yes, if not, then you will have problems there

[horusfalcon]

 µT6 makes some good points here.  Generally, PCLinuxOS has good compatibility, but it will be helpful to know what system we're dealing with in order to make more than general prognostications and pronouncements (such as I did in my previous post...)

Later On,
D

[smileeb]

My suggestion is to try a live CD of PCLinuxOS to see if it will boot from it and run.
The computer they send you may have that MS lock out of other boot-able CDs.

[russell.eberhardt]

Slightly off topic:
Does anyone know of a listing anywhere on the net of current laptop models (all of which come with Windows that can easily have Linux installed?  That is Linux and Linux only.

I ask this because a friend recently bought a Samsung laptop and in trying to install Linux borked the boot system and had to send it back.

Any recommended models?

Russell.

[horusfalcon]

Slightly off topic:
Does anyone know of a listing anywhere on the net of current laptop models (all of which come with Windows that can easily have Linux installed?  That is Linux and Linux only.

I ask this because a friend recently bought a Samsung laptop and in trying to install Linux borked the boot system and had to send it back.

Any recommended models?

Russell.

Most of the resources I know of for linux on laptops are not very current (in terms of the bleeding edge), so I'd love the hear an answer to this question, myself. 

There are some factors contributing to this situation.  One of the factors contributing here is a certain conservatism (engineering, not political) on the part of many Linux users.  Why spend hard cash for a system you can't prove will work with your desire OS?  Another is a reluctance of big-box stores (read: Best Buy, h.h. gregg) to allow customers to boot from live media to test before purchase.  Yet another is that Linux generally can get by with less hardware than its competition.

It's not always straightforward getting a very modern system to run Linux - more study, research, and definitely a good backup beforehand are requirements of any installation plan these days, given what the competition is doing to attempt to exclude Linux from newer hardware.

Sorry to hear of your bud's difficulties, but making mistakes is also part of the learning process.  (Personal experience speaking here, believe me.  Over the years I have accumulated enough knowledge about what not to do to fill a book or two.)

When you guys get it back from the vendor/repair depot, clone that puppy and try again - you may be the ones who can contribute knowledge of at least one current system, and whether it will or will not run Linux.

Wait... you said "borked the boot system"?  Is this thing set up with Secure Boot?  Definitely tell us more about what happened, please.  This might be a pitfall waiting for all of us on our next upgrade, too.  Did he, perchance, modify UEFI (flash the ROM?) or something like that?

[tschommer]

I ask this because a friend recently bought a Samsung laptop and in trying to install Linux borked the boot system and had to send it back.

That booting a new Samsung laptop with UEFI can cause a brick was reported a short time ago. I read that it happens with Linux as well as Windows 8 here

Could this be the case?

[luikki]

does this help?

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1132604-toshiba-laptop-uefi-fix/

[horusfalcon]

does this help?

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1132604-toshiba-laptop-uefi-fix/

Good info.  Thanks for finding this and for sharing it.  Apparently, there may be a way to switch the Samsung laptop back to a BIOS mode that will allow it to run Linux?

http://www.linuxnewshere.com/index.php/linus-torvalds-no-more-bricks-for-samsung-laptops

This isn't really a clear how-to, though... (at least not to me...)

That booting a new Samsung laptop with UEFI can cause a brick was reported a short time ago. I read that it happens with Linux as well as Windows 8 here

This UEFI thingy just keeps getting better and better.  Thanks for this - I'd quite missed it.

There is more:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2027864/secure-boot-loader-now-available-to-allow-linux-to-work-on-windows-8-pcs.html

Apparently, Microsoft has decided to play nice for a change?

From the linked article:

The latest releases of many major Linux distributions now include a bootloader or a shim of some sort to work with UEFI, including Ubuntu 12.10 and Fedora 18. This UEFI requirement, however, has been seen as a roadblock for those who like to create their own distributions of Linux. The Linux Foundation bootloader provides a hash code, certified by Microsoft, and support infrastructure to boot a generic Linux kernel.

"We have in place a protocol where Microsoft is happy for us to hand off from the initial Microsoft signed EFI binary load to a separately verified EFI binary chain, which the individual distributions control," Bottomley wrote.

Now the question is: does PCLinuxOS have any plans to include a UEFI bootloader in the near future?  I don't really see UEFI going away anytime soon (unless it gets blamed for slowing Win 8 adoption... could be a workable angle there), so we're going to have to live with it or gravitate toward older hardware.

This may be relevant to that:  http://blog.hansenpartnership.com/linux-foundation-secure-boot-system-released/

Back toward the topic:  all this plays into a selection of modern hardware for use with Linux. Whatever hardware you choose to use, it should be capable of either running in a legacy BIOS mode, or of loading a UEFI-compatible shim or bootloader.  The only sure way forward is to ask questions and do the research.

Later On,
D

[russell.eberhardt]

When you guys get it back from the vendor/repair depot, clone that puppy and try again - you may be the ones who can contribute knowledge of at least one current system, and whether it will or will not run Linux.

It's not coming back.  He's getting a refund, including return postage.  Good service from Amazon if not Samsung.

Russell

[russell.eberhardt]

That booting a new Samsung laptop with UEFI can cause a brick was reported a short time ago. I read that it happens with Linux as well as Windows 8 here

Could this be the case?

Yep, that's it - totally FUBARed

Russell.

[russell.eberhardt]

does this help?

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1132604-toshiba-laptop-uefi-fix/

Great tip.  Will try it if I run into the same problem again.  For now he just wants to buy a laptop that will run Linux well.  No dual boot, just XP on virtualbox.?

Russell

[horusfalcon]

does this help?

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1132604-toshiba-laptop-uefi-fix/

Great tip.  Will try it if I run into the same problem again.  For now he just wants to buy a laptop that will run Linux well.  No dual boot, just XP on virtualbox.?

Russell

Depends on what he wants to do with it.  If it's any indication, I have a rather modest (by today's standards, anyway) little Dell Latitude D620 that I bought refurbished with Intel video. (Stay away from Nvidia on a Dell Laptop!  Seriously.)  1280X800 14.1" display, nine-cell battery, 500GB drive (7200 RPM).  It didn't start out that way - I bought it with a six-cell and an 80GB drive with XP on it.  You can get one just like it now for under $200 US and I do everything on this little beastie:  video editing, music recording, editing, and mixdown, web, office, email, etc., etc., and especially etc.

If your bud's into more power, get a machine with more clock - this thing has a Core2Duo 1.86 GHz and there are times I wish it was a bit faster, but it's okay for most stuff.

I favor Dell's gear because it's generally easy to get the tech data and make repairs to it when it does fail which, with exceptions noted above about video on laptops, isn't really too often in my experience.

That's just my opinion - there's lots of gear out there that will run Linux quite well.  As most of us already know, Linux does not require the latest bleeding-edge Super Whammydyne with all the go-fasters to run very nicely.  People who see my machine at work are amazed at how responsive the old girl is.

Gotta run... duty calls.

Later On,
D

EDIT:  A question:  I wonder if this is going to drive an uptick in pre-UEFI hardware sales?

[horusfalcon]

Ahem... sorry for posting again before anyone else has had a chance, but I've been reading on UEFI and I believe I've discovered what Microsoft is really up to:  it's not US (read: the Linux Communities) they are worried about - it's them!

Read this article:

http://www.zdnet.com/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-key-for-windows-8-pcs-delays-explained-7000007841/

Buried in there is a little tidbit that brought it into sharp relief.  What OS is the major competitor for Window 8?  Is it Windows 7?  Not really.  Win 7 is popular, and has too great an enterprise presence - they can't afford to kill it off just yet. 

So, which one is it?  Microsoft is using UEFI to kill Windows XP!  XP has the largest installed user base of any operating system in computing history, but it's end of life, and MS no longer wishes to sell it.  Many users, however, are still loyal to it because it works reasonably well (at least for a Windows OS), and because they don't want to pay high prices for Win 7 or migrate to the uncertain future that is Win 8.

We (Linux users) are just collateral damage in this knife fight.  Microsoft is really looking to cut its own throat here.  I say let 'em.  If they make things bad enough, they'll crash the entire industry, and a flight from UEFI and Microsoft Certification of hardware will begin in earnest.

We should seriously begin to advance open source replacements for UEFI, and even look to producing open hardware.  The time will come when it will be highly desirable to many people, not just to Linux users.

Something to think about, anyway...

Later On,
D