Munich Migration to Linux - Update

[Just17]

Linux migration has already saved Munich £8.9 million

The city has now migrated over 80% of its 15,500 desktops to LiMux, it's own distribution of Linux
By Loek Essers | IDG News Service | Published 16:27, 26 November 12

By switching from Windows to LiMux, its own Linux distribution, the German city of Munich has saved over €11 million (£8.9 million) to date compared to the costs of a similar migration to a more modern Microsoft-based IT infrastructure

The city government estimated that Migrating from Windows 2000 to a combination of Windows 7 and Microsoft Office 2010 would have cost it a little over €34 million in total. Switching to LiMux and the OpenOffice.org desktop productivity suite has cost it €22.8 million, according to a cost comparison published last week that detailed the cost of migrating 11,000 users to open source applications on Linux.

http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/open-source/3413037/linux-migration-has-already-saved-munich-89-million/


But MS claimed that a study proved this to be completely false and that staying with Windows would have been much cheaper. (of course what else would we expect)
MS had HP do a study, on the results of which MS based its claims.

So, those with an interest in this ... such as press and Munich officials themselves, asked to see the study .....

Microsoft won't release study that challenged success of Munich's Linux migration
The study claimed that staying with Microsoft was cheaper than migrating to Linux, a German publication reported

January 22, 2013, 11:27 AM — Microsoft and Hewlett Packard won't share a study claiming that the German city of Munich had its numbers wrong when it calculated switching from Windows to Linux saved the city millions -- although an HP employee did provide the data to a German publication that reported on the results.

After reading Focus' report, Karl-Heinz Schneider, head of the Munich's municipal IT service IT@M, immediately asked Microsoft to provide him with the study, he said in a statement released by the city on Tuesday. However, Microsoft also refused to send it to him, said Stefan Hauf, spokesman for the city.

http://www.itworld.com/open-source/337658/microsoft-wont-release-study-challenged-success-munichs-linux-migration?page=0,0


I wonder if anyone can force MS to either withdraw their claim or publish the report on which their claim is made ...... there *should* be some such mechanism!

[Reb]

I agree, there should be such a mechanism.........

But I don't need it in this case.

It's down to Microsoft to put up, or shut up 

[smileeb]

I'm like Munich, I run linux.

If I ran MS the OS and Office would cost me hundreds of dollars
where linux and open office cost me nothing.

I cannot see MS's fuzzy math.

[AndrzejL]

Did they accounted all the data loss / virus removal costs / time of the machines being "unavailable" for the personnel due to some sort of OS related malfunctions and possible other "inconveniences" (like security breach that would allow for some money transfer related frauds or maybe bank details leakage, perhaps even lawsuits costs for leaking the databases with personal data if they happened go get sued for it) or is it just the OS / office implementation cost (possibly patches written by German programmers for their own personal usage / writing other specific applications for the purpose of the Munich city offices) and some pentesting maybe? €11 mln sounds rather low... Just wondering...

Cheers.

Andrzej

[kjpetrie]

On the other hand, if I'd stayed with MS I wouldn't have spent 77 days of my life reading this forum... Hmmmm.

77 days of enjoyment.

[Old-Polack]

On the other hand, if I'd stayed with MS I wouldn't have spent 77 days of my life reading this forum... Hmmmm.

77 days of enjoyment.

Piker! 

[bicol_willem]

Don´t wanna be too sceptic but it all points to "government workers" to me.
There own Linux Distro (re-inventing the wheel), a old OpenOffice in use. Changes are going to take ages....
Nagh ya, they do get rid of M$ little step by little step and that does it for me! 

[Ika]

smileeb, ROIOFLU

If I ran MS the OS and Office would cost me hundreds of dollars
where linux and open office cost me nothing.

... + an antivirus.

[Ika]

By switching from Windows to LiMux, its own Linux distribution, the German city of Munich has saved over €11 million (£8.9 million) to date compared to the costs of a similar migration to a more modern Microsoft-based IT infrastructure

The city government estimated that Migrating from Windows 2000 to a combination of Windows 7 and Microsoft Office 2010 would have cost it a little over €34 million in total. Switching to LiMux and the OpenOffice.org desktop productivity suite has cost it €22.8 million, according to a cost comparison published last week that detailed the cost of migrating 11,000 users to open source applications on Linux.

Of course, this sums includes buying new machines too, because Linux and OpenOffice are free of cost.

[AndrzejL]

Don´t wanna be too sceptic but it all points to "government workers" to me.
There own Linux Distro (re-inventing the wheel), a old OpenOffice in use. Changes are going to take ages....
Nagh ya, they do get rid of M$ little step by little step and that does it for me!  

I disagree about "re-inventing of the wheel" Dude. I am betting that they are using something good as a base and are just adding patches (security, performance, stability) / rebranding / pentesting to find more security issues and patching them too, writing applications that are necessary in their offices and making sure that the Office suite runs flawlessly. It's not re-inventing the wheel... It's called making sure that everything goes peachy... And then administration of these things... is gonna be awesome too...

Mass - For when you want to look like a hacker from the movies, but actually do something useful!

that is of course if they will use the right tools (which they can write themselves or modify / patch / secure even more the existing ones...) but then I believe they are clever enough to handle it...

Can You imagine applying patches on 15 000 machines simultaneously? SWEET! You only need one machine for testing - You write the code and You test it severely AND off it goes to the machines...

Regards.

Andrzej

[parnote]

Some more details have filtered out ...

M$ based their cost figures on equipping the computers with WinXP and Office 2003!

So ... let's see ... let's install a stale, unstable, 12 year old, OS with more security holes than Swiss Cheese has holes, coupled with a 10 year old copy of Office ... or install a modern, up-to-date OS that is secure and free.

Sounds to me as if Munich made the right move ... and that M$ is just espousing their sour grapes over the move to FLOSS.

[AndrzejL]

Sounds to me as if Munich made the right move...

And sounds like Microsoft has a serious problem with admitting that... How could they? They are a corporation. Things like that are a cracks in their pedestal... and they cannot have to many of these...

[bicol_willem]

Don´t wanna be too sceptic but it all points to "government workers" to me.
There own Linux Distro (re-inventing the wheel), a old OpenOffice in use. Changes are going to take ages....
Nagh ya, they do get rid of M$ little step by little step and that does it for me!  

I disagree about "re-inventing of the wheel" Dude. I am betting that they are using something good as a base and are just adding patches (security, performance, stability) / rebranding / pentesting to find more security issues and patching them too, writing applications that are necessary in their offices and making sure that the Office suite runs flawlessly. It's not re-inventing the wheel... It's called making sure that everything goes peachy... And then administration of these things... is gonna be awesome too...

Mass - For when you want to look like a hacker from the movies, but actually do something useful!

that is of course if they will use the right tools (which they can write themselves or modify / patch / secure even more the existing ones...) but then I believe they are clever enough to handle it...

Can You imagine applying patches on 15 000 machines simultaneously? SWEET! You only need one machine for testing - You write the code and You test it severely AND off it goes to the machines...

Regards.

Andrzej

Trouble I have with this approach is the fact that Microsoft is a standard. When municipalities and the like develop away at will, there will be soon compatibility problems among them, proving once more Microsoft was "better" as many of the microfiles working at their machines will happily point at.

[AndrzejL]

Don´t wanna be too sceptic but it all points to "government workers" to me.
There own Linux Distro (re-inventing the wheel), a old OpenOffice in use. Changes are going to take ages....
Nagh ya, they do get rid of M$ little step by little step and that does it for me! 

I disagree about "re-inventing of the wheel" Dude. I am betting that they are using something good as a base and are just adding patches (security, performance, stability) / rebranding / pentesting to find more security issues and patching them too, writing applications that are necessary in their offices and making sure that the Office suite runs flawlessly. It's not re-inventing the wheel... It's called making sure that everything goes peachy... And then administration of these things... is gonna be awesome too...

Mass - For when you want to look like a hacker from the movies, but actually do something useful!

that is of course if they will use the right tools (which they can write themselves or modify / patch / secure even more the existing ones...) but then I believe they are clever enough to handle it...

Can You imagine applying patches on 15 000 machines simultaneously? SWEET! You only need one machine for testing - You write the code and You test it severely AND off it goes to the machines...

Regards.

Andrzej

Trouble I have with this approach is the fact that Microsoft is a standard.

Was... Was a standard. Libreoffice / Openoffice are fully capable of saving files in microsoft format... Beside this how long do You think it's going to be before the rest of the country administration offices moves to Linux after their capitol did?

Regards.

Andrzej

[kjpetrie]

For compatibility purposes they will need to keep a few Windows machine (or VMs) around to open legacy documents. OO and the like aren't bad but don't open everything exactly the same, and this will cause problems, especially when dealing with records the accuracy of which is of legal importance.

As for compatibility with other municipalities, that's simple - insist everything is sent in ISO-standard formats. That means things like PDF (for display) and ODF (for editing). That's the official standard, not just MS's idea of what a standard should be.