Author Topic: Power supply failed - huh?  (Read 522 times)

Offline tschommer

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Power supply failed - huh?
« on: January 15, 2013, 01:12:29 PM »
Guys, I need your infinite wisdom here.

I've been using my desktop machine for the last couple of months (specs see signature).

This morning I was working, using my work laptop (Windoze XP! Ugh!), at the same time had my desktop up (I really just need to at least see PCLOS when I'm working. So I was busy for about half an hour when my desktop turned off, just like that. Power gone. Nada. Kaputt.

I'm no hardware expert, mind you. So after a short panic attack I opened up the tower, checked all connections, cleaned out a little dust, etc. Turned on - nothing. Not a single bit.

I still have some pieces lying around I was going to throw away, and saw that a 550W power supply was there. Who knows? So i exchanged power supplies, et voila! Since then everything's working again.

The previous power supply utilized 450W which should be enough for my system. Thus my question - can a power supply simply fail? Just like That?

Btw, I checked /var/log/messages and the like, absolutely nothing suspicious at the time, temps from sensord very much within normal limits, no other hints either.

Thanks for reading.
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AndrzejL

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2013, 01:22:19 PM »
It can. Be glad it didnt took Your motherboard / hdd with it... Does the old power adapter has the fuse in it? Maybe that's just it?

Regards.

Andrzej

Offline tschommer

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 01:25:38 PM »
Ha, I didn't even think about a fuse  ::)

Could be, as suddenly as everything turned off without frying the components.

I'll take a look later on. Thanks, AndrzejL.
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Offline YouCanToo

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 01:32:40 PM »
Guys, I need your infinite wisdom here.

I've been using my desktop machine for the last couple of months (specs see signature).

This morning I was working, using my work laptop (Windoze XP! Ugh!), at the same time had my desktop up (I really just need to at least see PCLOS when I'm working. So I was busy for about half an hour when my desktop turned off, just like that. Power gone. Nada. Kaputt.

I'm no hardware expert, mind you. So after a short panic attack I opened up the tower, checked all connections, cleaned out a little dust, etc. Turned on - nothing. Not a single bit.

I still have some pieces lying around I was going to throw away, and saw that a 550W power supply was there. Who knows? So i exchanged power supplies, et voila! Since then everything's working again.

The previous power supply utilized 450W which should be enough for my system. Thus my question - can a power supply simply fail? Just like That?

Absolutely can

Quote
Btw, I checked /var/log/messages and the like, absolutely nothing suspicious at the time, temps from sensord very much within normal limits, no other hints either.

Thanks for reading.




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Offline dcwbis

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 02:33:17 PM »


Thus my question - can a power supply simply fail? Just like That?


Over the years I have had several power supplies (at least a half dozen) just quit working on me.  Fortunately, I have never suffered any additional hardware damage. 
PCLos KDE & LXDE user.

Offline gandy

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2013, 02:42:38 PM »
A long time ago, I was using a pc that I built, when it shut down and smoke came from the rear of the machine. The power supply literally started on fire, briefly. It took the mobo, hard drive and two optical drives with it.
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Offline kjpetrie

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 04:46:10 PM »
OK, let's consider what happens inside a power supply. Firstly, the mains passes through a bridge rectifier in which short bursts of high current pulse into a big electrolytic capacitor. That's the kind of capacitor T6 is always warning us about, but a big one. This gives you a capacitor with approximately 1.4 x your nominal mains voltage across it. Then a small feed from this is taken to a transistorised oscillator (probably in a chip) which pulses a switching transistor on and off a few tens of thousands of times per second. This pulses current from that big capacitor through a coil of wire (the chopper transformer primary), inducing current in a second coil called (you've guessed it) the secondary. This has multiple taps which are in the right places to deliver the voltages in the right ratio for the computer. One of these is measured and the pulses to the chopper transistor are adjusted to set the output to the right voltage. The pulses from the secondary are rectified, smoothed with more of those nasty capacitors, and fed out to the various parts of the computer. Every time the load varies (say a disc spins up or down or you plug something into a USB port) the voltages dip and the pulses have to be adjusted again to return them to the right value.

Now the problem is that interrupting current through a big coil generates very big voltage spikes. We're talking about thousands of volts, and these are lethal to transistors, so the spikes have to be controlled with beefy networks of diodes and resistors to protect the transistor from these spikes while still ensuring the switching generates the right shape pulses to feed the correct output voltages. That took decades to get right, as it's not easy. It only takes one big pulse to destroy that transistor, under all the changes of pulse timing which might be required of it to keep those voltages right. And then there's the heat. That transistor along with everything else in the PSU gets hot, so hot it has to be cooled with a fan, which sucks in dust which clogs the airways and makes the cooling efficiency fall with time, and hot components change value, so all those carefully calculated protective networks start to change their characteristics and might no longer offer that transistor full protection. And I haven't mentioned the spikes. Cables can and do get struck by lightning. Cities need different amounts of power at different times of day, so power stations have to be switched on and off to supply the right amount, and that all causes spikes - momentary pulses of double or treble the normal voltage which only last a thousandth of a second or so, but that's a long time when you're switching on and off 20,000 times a second or more. One of those spikes adding to the normal pulses inside the PSU and it's curtains for that transistor.

The marvel isn't that power supplies occasionally fail. It's that they last as long as they do.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:50:44 PM by kjpetrie »
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Offline jakesdad

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 05:38:05 PM »
To check out your supply, near the center of the plug that goes to the motherboard (Unplug it first) there is a green wire that you can ground to any of the black wires and if the supply is good it will power up. The motherboard makes the PSU come on and if the motherboard fails the PSU won't start.
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Offline tschommer

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 04:19:18 AM »
Wow, lots of information!

Thanks, guys. Now I'll know what to check in the future  ;)
What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?
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Offline cstrike77

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 12:47:37 PM »
I've lost 1 PS, but at time of boot.

Lost numerous fans though, in the olden days you could swipe one out of a good PS and replace the dead fan. Because some times the "other" PS would not fit the case. So whenever I seen a puter by the side of the road I'd pick it up, pull PS and anything worthwhile and junk the rest..

Yes, I was a packrat..... :)

jan

Offline Old-Polack

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 12:52:29 PM »
I've lost 1 PS, but at time of boot.

Lost numerous fans though, in the olden days you could swipe one out of a good PS and replace the dead fan. Because some times the "other" PS would not fit the case. So whenever I seen a puter by the side of the road I'd pick it up, pull PS and anything worthwhile and junk the rest..

Yes, I was a packrat..... :)

jan

Was? Was? I, most definitely, still am...  ;D ;D
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Offline cstrike77

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 01:36:09 PM »
I've lost 1 PS, but at time of boot.

Lost numerous fans though, in the olden days you could swipe one out of a good PS and replace the dead fan. Because some times the "other" PS would not fit the case. So whenever I seen a puter by the side of the road I'd pick it up, pull PS and anything worthwhile and junk the rest..

Yes, I was a packrat..... :)

jan

Was? Was? I, most definitely, still am...  ;D ;D



well, if I had my own place I'd still be a packrat. But you can't throw out computers around here anymore. I do have a box of bits and pieces down at the storage unit, but have went thru all my laptop hard drives :(

So now I can't "play" with any of our other ISO's, and can't even burn an ISO because the combo drive died... Lappy not good for much if ya can't burn a disk!

jan

Offline pags

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 01:45:39 PM »
well, if I had my own place I'd still be a packrat. But you can't throw out computers around here anymore. I do have a box of bits and pieces down at the storage unit, but have went thru all my laptop hard drives :(

So now I can't "play" with any of our other ISO's, and can't even burn an ISO because the combo drive died... Lappy not good for much if ya can't burn a disk!

jan


What about LiveUSB, instead of burning the ISOs to optical media?

Offline cstrike77

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 02:01:08 PM »
well, if I had my own place I'd still be a packrat. But you can't throw out computers around here anymore. I do have a box of bits and pieces down at the storage unit, but have went thru all my laptop hard drives :(

So now I can't "play" with any of our other ISO's, and can't even burn an ISO because the combo drive died... Lappy not good for much if ya can't burn a disk!

jan


What about LiveUSB, instead of burning the ISOs to optical media?

That does work, BUT, problems are that I have 2 older PC users, and about this time of the year I get two emails or phone messages left somewhere that I need to come over and reinstall that "other" os... I'd really like to try them out on Linux, but don't know if it will work. It would be nice to have a livecd of LXDE with avast on it, so I could scan said virused box and fix without having to reinstall..

Other problem is have nowhere to go with all the genealogy I have backed up, all flash drives full, can't afford any new ones and it would be nice if I could just burn all of it off to DVD.. Hard drive is cluttered right now with census, notes, gedcoms and pictures and have nowhere to go with 'em....

jan

Offline Old-Polack

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Re: Power supply failed - huh?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 02:17:52 PM »
well, if I had my own place I'd still be a packrat. But you can't throw out computers around here anymore. I do have a box of bits and pieces down at the storage unit, but have went thru all my laptop hard drives :(

So now I can't "play" with any of our other ISO's, and can't even burn an ISO because the combo drive died... Lappy not good for much if ya can't burn a disk!

jan


What about LiveUSB, instead of burning the ISOs to optical media?

That does work, BUT, problems are that I have 2 older PC users, and about this time of the year I get two emails or phone messages left somewhere that I need to come over and reinstall that "other" os... I'd really like to try them out on Linux, but don't know if it will work. It would be nice to have a livecd of LXDE with avast on it, so I could scan said virused box and fix without having to reinstall..

Other problem is have nowhere to go with all the genealogy I have backed up, all flash drives full, can't afford any new ones and it would be nice if I could just burn all of it off to DVD.. Hard drive is cluttered right now with census, notes, gedcoms and pictures and have nowhere to go with 'em....

jan

You need a real external hard drive. Also a USB connected DVD burner wouldn't hurt. With a real external hard drive you'd have a place to clear off some USB flash drives, freeing them for future use. An empty USB external hard drive case is the cheap way to go, if you have any 3.5" internal desktop hard drives laying around. Alternatively, a docking station could be a better solution, if you have a number of old desktop hard drives; no tools needed to switch drives, just unplug one and plug in the next.
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