Author Topic: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!  (Read 851 times)

Offline Nok

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2258
  • A Space Odyssey
Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« on: December 08, 2012, 02:29:30 PM »
Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
 ― Isaac Asimov

Offline trevatxtal

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 85
    • The Home of Xtal
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 12:45:26 AM »
If that is the standard of the Nuclear supply industry, is it any wonder there are accidents.
The floors are cluttered with cables and other junk, very few items have identity plates or tags.
Access space is cluttered and blocked.
If that was my workshop there would be a few folk fired on the spot.
Or is the whole setup a spoof. :o
Trev.
 

Offline horusfalcon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Wayfarer of The Western Wastes
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 10:17:18 PM »
If that is the standard of the Nuclear supply industry, is it any wonder there are accidents.
The floors are cluttered with cables and other junk, very few items have identity plates or tags.
Access space is cluttered and blocked.
If that was my workshop there would be a few folk fired on the spot.
Or is the whole setup a spoof. :o
Trev.
 

That looks like a research reactor of some sort, or maybe a breeder reactor? The reactors I operated were all propulsion plants, and looked nothing liked this - everything was squared away and done in strict accordance to all electrical and mechanical codes.  I've seen other US nuclear facilities and have seen a little workspace clutter in non-controlled area, but nothing like this.  Everything had a place, was kept there when not needed, and was accounted for on a regular basis.  Very much by the numbers, this nuclear energy business.  (Otherwise, sad things like Fukushima Dai-ichi, Chernobyl and Three Mile Island occur, we lose good people, and we learn the hard way.)

Not really loving the mashup of what looks like documentary footage with clips from the movie "Watchmen".  That just serves to needlessly sensationalize this whole business.  Nuclear energy can be a very useful and abundant energy source once we de-politicize it to the point where it's economical to use.  I'm not saying de-regulate it, just use some good old common sense and do what's needed without all the red tape that just makes bureaucrats wealthy at the expense of the taxpaying public.

I'll stop now.  I'm somewhat less than detached about it.

Later On,
D
"The Way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing.  One word to a wise man; one lash to a bright horse."

Dell Latitude D620, PCLinuxOS 2012.08 KDE4/LXDE, 3.2.18.pclos.bfs, specs here.

Offline Rudge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9773
  • I'm Just A Dog.
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 10:57:35 PM »
It would be interesting to compare the "safety,accident or fatal" incidents of the nuclear power industry vs the coal industry.    
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 11:01:47 PM by Rudge »


-If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe-  Carl Sagan

Offline bicol_willem

  • PCLinuxOS Tester
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2376
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 11:21:27 PM »
It would be interesting to compare the "safety,accident or fatal" incidents of the nuclear power industry vs the coal industry.    

Well, nuclear among others,  leaves humanity with a CHANCE to survive, oil, gas and coal isn´t. The last are sure kills over time.

Offline kjpetrie

  • PCLinuxOS Tester
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4037
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 05:53:53 AM »
It would be interesting to compare the "safety,accident or fatal" incidents of the nuclear power industry vs the coal industry.    

It's been done many times. Nuclear has a far higher safety record (there's also more radiation in a typical coal mine than in the parts of a nuclear facility people enter). Fukushima wasn't the result of poor safety procedures and no one was killed by it. About 20,000 were killed by the natural disaster that caused it, but no one was killed by the reactor failures that resulted.

However, I understand there's only about 20 years' uranium supply in the world if we were to switch all our energy use to it.
-----------
KJP
-----------------------------------------------------------
PClos64 RC1 on Intel D945GCLF2 motherboard (Atom 330), 2GB DDR2 RAM, Maxtor STM325031, HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H42N, Amilo LSL 3220T monitor. Also Acer 5810TG (with custom kernel) and Asus eeePC 2G surf

Offline russell.eberhardt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 09:20:28 AM »

However, I understand there's only about 20 years' uranium supply in the world if we were to switch all our energy use to it.

Yes, but 20 years without global warming would be good if it were possible.

Russell
Desktop: Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3 motherboard, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS, AMD Phenom II Quad Core Processor 3GHz, 4GB ram, 250GB + 500GB SATA HD,

Offline bicol_willem

  • PCLinuxOS Tester
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2376
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 03:01:30 PM »

However, I understand there's only about 20 years' uranium supply in the world if we were to switch all our energy use to it.

Yes, but 20 years without global warming would be good if it were possible.

Russell

Right, 20 years time to rethink century old technologies and finally make these work for after that years.  ;)

“But we shall not satisfy ourselves simply with improving steam and explosive engines or inventing new batteries; we have something much better to work for, a greater task to fulfill. We have to evolve means for obtaining energy from stores which are forever inexhaustible, to perfect methods which do not imply consumption and waste of any material whatever.”

Nikola Tesla

(He has been well on his way over 100 years ago)

Offline horusfalcon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Wayfarer of The Western Wastes
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 03:14:00 PM »
It would be interesting to compare the "safety,accident or fatal" incidents of the nuclear power industry vs the coal industry.    


It's been done many times. Nuclear has a far higher safety record (there's also more radiation in a typical coal mine than in the parts of a nuclear facility people enter). Fukushima wasn't the result of poor safety procedures and no one was killed by it. About 20,000 were killed by the natural disaster that caused it, but no one was killed by the reactor failures that resulted.

However, I understand there's only about 20 years' uranium supply in the world if we were to switch all our energy use to it.



Yup.  All excellent points!  (Although I'm still waitin' for a big, scaly, green lizard-king to surface in Tokyo Bay!  :P)

As to the uranium supply, we could greatly extend that by using breeder reactor technologies and by using Thorium power cycle reactor technologies, too.  That might give us as much as 75 years, with far less actinide series wastes to dispose of (all the bad stuff with long half-lives...)

An even better option would be to develop OTEC - it's non-nuclear, it's renewable, it reverses global warming, and it's clean!

http://www.otecnews.org/what-is-otec/

But what do I know?

Later On,
D

 
"The Way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing.  One word to a wise man; one lash to a bright horse."

Dell Latitude D620, PCLinuxOS 2012.08 KDE4/LXDE, 3.2.18.pclos.bfs, specs here.

Offline bicol_willem

  • PCLinuxOS Tester
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2376
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 04:18:39 PM »
It would be interesting to compare the "safety,accident or fatal" incidents of the nuclear power industry vs the coal industry.    


It's been done many times. Nuclear has a far higher safety record (there's also more radiation in a typical coal mine than in the parts of a nuclear facility people enter). Fukushima wasn't the result of poor safety procedures and no one was killed by it. About 20,000 were killed by the natural disaster that caused it, but no one was killed by the reactor failures that resulted.

However, I understand there's only about 20 years' uranium supply in the world if we were to switch all our energy use to it.



Yup.  All excellent points!  (Although I'm still waitin' for a big, scaly, green lizard-king to surface in Tokyo Bay!  :P)

As to the uranium supply, we could greatly extend that by using breeder reactor technologies and by using Thorium power cycle reactor technologies, too.  That might give us as much as 75 years, with far less actinide series wastes to dispose of (all the bad stuff with long half-lives...)

An even better option would be to develop OTEC - it's non-nuclear, it's renewable, it reverses global warming, and it's clean!

http://www.otecnews.org/what-is-otec/

But what do I know?

Later On,
D

 


There are many solutions but the (financial) interest a few "oilmen" seems still to have more weight then life on earth.
See here, the real problem exposed and its not a technical problem.

Offline Nok

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2258
  • A Space Odyssey
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 04:31:16 PM »
If a small fraction of the oil subsidies had been spent on nuclear fusion research, we probably wouldn't have an energy crisis now.
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
 ― Isaac Asimov

Offline Just17

  • PCLinuxOS Tester
  • Super Villain
  • *******
  • Posts: 11064
  • MLUs Forever!
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 04:31:37 PM »
Use OTEC in any large quantities, such as would be required to replace existing energy generation, and it would likely have a more detrimental impact on the climate & weather systems than anything we have done to date.

Our climate, to a large extent, is determined by the ocean currents, which in turn are dependent on temperatures ........  interfere with that and expect the worst.  ;)

For localised use ...... seems to be a clean technology if the necessary safety requirements are adhered to of course.

MLUs rule the roost!

Linux XPS 3.4.48-pclos1.bfs  64 bit
Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q9450 @ 2.66GHz
4 GB RAM
MCP51 High Def Audio
GeForce GTX 550 Ti
PHILIPS  ‎DVD+-RW DVD8701
‎Logitech ‎BT Mini-Receiver
Afatech DTT

Offline horusfalcon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Wayfarer of The Western Wastes
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 05:49:54 PM »
There are many solutions but the (financial) interest a few "oilmen" seems still to have more weight then life on earth.
See here, the real problem exposed and its not a technical problem.


So far it hasn't stopped Lockheed Martin from doing a LOT of basic research into the technology and fielding some prototypes.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/otec.html

Once the genie gets out of the bottle... this could get interesting.

Later On,
D
"The Way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing.  One word to a wise man; one lash to a bright horse."

Dell Latitude D620, PCLinuxOS 2012.08 KDE4/LXDE, 3.2.18.pclos.bfs, specs here.

Offline zorlac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 237
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 06:31:56 PM »
An even better option would be to develop OTEC - it's non-nuclear, it's renewable, it reverses global warming, and it's clean!
http://www.otecnews.org/what-is-otec/
But what do I know?
Later On,
D


Various renowned parties estimate the amount of energy that can be practically harvested to be in the order of 3 to 5 terawatts of baseload power generation, without affecting the temperature of the ocean...

If true, that's pretty amazing!
Thanks for the link.

Offline bicol_willem

  • PCLinuxOS Tester
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2376
Re: Nuclear Reactors, Fantasy and fact!
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 06:42:36 PM »
Use OTEC in any large quantities, such as would be required to replace existing energy generation, and it would likely have a more detrimental impact on the climate & weather systems than anything we have done to date.

Our climate, to a large extent, is determined by the ocean currents, which in turn are dependent on temperatures ........  interfere with that and expect the worst.  ;)

For localised use ...... seems to be a clean technology if the necessary safety requirements are adhered to of course.



read again:
Quote
The energy source of OTEC is free, available abundantly and is continually being replenished as long as the sun shines and the natural ocean currents exist. Various renowned parties estimate the amount of energy that can be practically harvested to be in the order of 3 to 5 terawatts (1 terawatt is 112 watts) of baseload power generation, without affecting the temperature of the ocean or the world’s environment.