Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands

[Wildman]

Not a bad introduction from IBM. I'd disagree with one thing I saw there - not to include a path in the definition of source. I always understood that should be given as a URL so future packagers could know where to download it.

That's in the spec file I presume.    I was looking for a source last night, couldn't find it
anywhere.    Check the spec file of course.

There's 3 parts to that series, that is only the first part.   Goes all the way to handling
dependencies.   Looks like one could do some medium-level packages then.   There's
some advanced articles that aren't included of course.    Need to put these in my
current reading bookmarks.

regards,

FF

The remaining two parts can be obtained here..

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/libraryview.jsp?sort_by=&show_abstract=true&show_all=&search_flag=&topic_by=-1&type_by=Articles&search_by=rpm%2C&Go.x=48&Go.y=12

[sling-shot]

I was just wondering... has there been any progress here? Has any one actually taken up packaging?
---------------------
I have got a basic understanding of packaging. Only good enough for blind updates of simple existing packages and things like single executable packages.
Time has been a serious constraint as I had thought. In particular getting long enough parcels to get the picture.

[Yankee]

I was just wondering... has there been any progress here? Has any one actually taken up packaging?

It appears most people actually on the forum are either new users, or older
Windows/DOS users like myself.

So to find experienced Linux users, people that hold a Linux Certificate, or
people with a college degree in computing including Linux, perhaps a wider
search is needed to find the above people with time and short learning curves
to do some packaging.

Where ?

Colleges that definitely teach Linux.
Linux User Groups (LUGS)
Usenet Linux Tech forums

where else ?


regards,

FF

[gseaman]

I think that all the work to update the wiki with clear, simple instructions to start packaging is very valuable. But, I would not be discouraged if we do not see immediate results. It is very difficult to measure what each contribution means to the outcome of the whole project.
Each of the packagers that we have are gaining experience with each new package. Each new package opens up the distro to more potential users. So, everything is progressing as it should.
I was able to learn because of a lot of help and persistence. With the improved wiki, others that may have given up frustrated will have more tools to continue.

Galen

[Neal ManBear]

It appears most people actually on the forum are either new users, or older
Windows/DOS users like myself.

So to find experienced Linux users, people that hold a Linux Certificate, or
people with a college degree in computing including Linux, perhaps a wider
search is needed to find the above people with time and short learning curves
to do some packaging.

Where ?

Colleges that definitely teach Linux.
Linux User Groups (LUGS)
Usenet Linux Tech forums

where else ?

regards,

FF

     
This is a common misconception; i.e. that a certification and/or a degree is needed to learn packaging, and that new users are not capable of learning this skill. Anyone willing to learn can learn.     

When I began learning packaging, I had been using Linux for only a few months. I had neither degree nor certification (still do not). What I had was the determination to contribute and the willingness to dig in and learn. Was it hard? Yes, it was quite difficult, but the learned skill/knowledge gained was worth the effort.     

[Tony]

There is a lot of information in Packagers section. Each thread will have some helpful post or posts in it. You may consider this "scattered information" but please consider this - each thread was started by an individual seeking assistance with packaging a specific app. Digging out those gems of information may take time, but if you are serious about packaging, the effort will be worth it.     
Aside from those, there are the sticky topics. These, also, are worth the read.     

Start your own topic in Packagers section, when you get started on packaging an app. Share your SRPM. Share your spec. Ask questions. You can learn from the responses you get.     

I feel keeping the learning 'activity' in the Packagers section is maybe best way to learn, as you'll get feedback. Over time even a small school type section may develop over the years which is what we need.
Also, reading all available afore mentioned guides has to help. I do feel getting people into the packaging section and doing some is going to develop people quicker, but whether it will distract existing packagers is my main concern.

[sling-shot]

but whether it will distract existing packagers is my main concern.

Give hungry man a fish and he will be happy for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will never bother you again Hopefully!?

[Tony]

I like some of the suggestions Just17 made, about 'Practice Packages', to get started.

I've put together some Bookmarks of Tutorials, Wiki, and downloaded some recommended 'Manuals'. Will take weeks to read, but if at the moment that's the way,...

Personally reading some threads in the packaging section that raise questions which I then seek out answers maybe more productive myself.

Getting started also is probably best option.       Obviously this thread is a must read firstly.

[gseaman]

Getting started also is probably best option. 

Agreed!

Galen

[trustytrev]

Hello,
      I had a go at packaging some time ago.I found the biggest barrier was obsolete and contradictory information.I would learn and grasp something and then progress.However when needing to refresh my understanding I would find it virtually impossible to relocate the relevant
information again.I would end up losing track of where I was going and spend more time trying to find my way again.
I would suggest it would be beneficial if all obsolete and contradictory information was disposed of, and only the current and relevant information
was kept for reference.I am sure filtering all the wrong/old information would make learning to package that much easier.
I don't have any qualifications or experience in IT and I don't know how to program but I did manage to package a couple of applications.
Having forgotten most of what I learned I find the prospect of trawling through the information minefield again rather daunting.If a more structured source of information was available it would make things a lot simpler for the layperson.
trustytre.

[joechimp]

I have a question for those of you that have started packaging without much knowledge beforehand.  I will use Neal as an example.

When I began learning packaging, I had been using Linux for only a few months. I had neither degree nor certification (still do not). What I had was the determination to contribute and the willingness to dig in and learn. Was it hard? Yes, it was quite difficult, but the learned skill/knowledge gained was worth the effort. 

Neal or others that share this scenario. Could you tell us how much time you devoted each week to this. Was it an hour a day ? 5 or 6 hours a week , etc.?How long did it take you to be comfortable with doing packaging?

Of course I know everyone learns at a different  level and schedule. I just want a rough overview on a time frame. For example did it take you a year to do this right or did it just take a month or two. Nothing scientific about this but I would like to know please. Thanks in advance.

[sling-shot]

The primary goal of Packaging for PCLinuxOS wiki page that I have written was to help an absolute beginner like me get a foot hold in packaging.

Now, for the existing packagers many of the problems faced by beginners is not apparent.
Everyone says post in packagers we will answer. But I have found that the enthusiasm to answer fades after sometime and surely after answering a few noob questions experienced packagers may give up doing the baby sitting. A thread started will get some answers and after sometime just fizzle out without getting conclusion. This will deter new entrants except for a very few.

The best thing would be a good guide that is clear, simple and gives enough details to do without hand holding.

Is that wiki page not enough? What additions are needed for that page? Those who have attempted please give some indications of exactly what needs improvement there. One suggestion is to have 'practice packages'.

[Neal ManBear]

I have a question for those of you that have started packaging without much knowledge beforehand.  I will use Neal as an example.

When I began learning packaging, I had been using Linux for only a few months. I had neither degree nor certification (still do not). What I had was the determination to contribute and the willingness to dig in and learn. Was it hard? Yes, it was quite difficult, but the learned skill/knowledge gained was worth the effort. 

Neal or others that share this scenario. Could you tell us how much time you devoted each week to this. Was it an hour a day ? 5 or 6 hours a week , etc.?How long did it take you to be comfortable with doing packaging?

Of course I know everyone learns at a different  level and schedule. I just want a rough overview on a time frame. For example did it take you a year to do this right or did it just take a month or two. Nothing scientific about this but I would like to know please. Thanks in advance.

     
I devoted 3 or so hours a day to learning. My first package was ready in less than a month.     

[joechimp]

Thank you Neal. That is exactly what I wanted to know. 

[gseaman]

My experience was similar to Neal's. I had the added incentive that I really wanted the package in the repo.

Galen