Author Topic: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands  (Read 3149 times)

Offline sling-shot

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Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« on: December 01, 2012, 10:16:08 AM »
I have an observation about our beloved PCLinuxOS. Please correct me if I am wrong.

PCLinuxOS is a distribution that has been created with the aim of making life simple and easy for users. It aims to achieve high standards of packaging and testing in order to provide such an end user experience.

The problem with PCLinuxOS is that it seems to be too good. Result being that users are not having to do much extra to get things working. So that reduces the need for tinkering and hence less exploration and ultimately less knowledge?

Now packaging for PCLinuxOS means a need for a high level of knowledge (as I have recently learnt ;) ) and that can only be gained from reading arising out of curiosity and curiosity comes from fixing things broken.

I would not have known how to change the tyre of my car if it would have never gone flat.

Right now we have very few (I believe their total number can be counted using fingers alone) packagers working for the whole distro. This has lead to a situation where in they are invariably overburdened. Couple that with the high standards expected and the 64 bit release in the works.

If the situation does not improve, I believe our future is in risk.

So we definitely need more PACKAGERS. How can we get them? A distro that insists on installing from source will naturally develop a pool of users knowledgeable and can just pick from that pool. Not so for us.
We on the other hand need to upgrade our lot of regular users who are interested to contribute to the grade of packagers.

How can this be done?
1. Each and every one of us who has benefitted from PCLinuxOS must decide to contribute in some or other way.
2. There must be a definite staircase / path for the interested to follow to reach that goal.
3. A lot of learning can be self taught provided there is easily accessible and initially simple material. So we need to provide such material or links to that in an easily accessible place.
4. An easy place to catch potential packagers could be from the Testers pool. But right now even though the list of signed up testers seems quite large, the actual number of active testers seems to be low. Testers need to be engaged more.
5. I request the existing packagers, however busy they are to try and assist more of those who express interest. (I am very grateful for everyone who has helped me try to find some way and also to the one who has personally expressed desire to take me under his wing so to say)

--------------------

This is a call for all those who are interested to learn and contribute packaging for PCLinuxOS from ground zero.
If you are genuinely interested, please answer below.
Let us start an effort....
Packaging well will cure headaches of many :) But learning to package will cause headaches in many :(

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Offline menotu

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2012, 01:38:33 PM »
Mebbe a  simple "step by step" Packaging Tutorial could be added to the monthly PCLinuxOS Magazine

It could start with an "easy" application to package, leading to more "difficult" applications covering, say, 3 magazine articles (3 months) Or more if it takes off............

One "downside" is that it could take one packager away from their regular packaging "duties".

One upside is that more forum members/PCLinuxOS users may then be available to take the weight off the shoulders of the current handful (or fingerful) of packagers

This would obviously need the blessing (or not) of Parnote and, possibly, other Magazine article writers.

If the magazine route is a "no go" mebbe instructions could be followed in a forum post via a Personal Messaging group (a la testers group)
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Offline Yankee

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2012, 01:52:43 PM »
A packaging manual, perhaps a zip file, available by request
would be a big help.   Look in the forum, the stuff is in a dozen
locations, etc. some info appears somewhat outdated and
so forth.    A tad bit discouraging for a newer packaging
volunteer.

regards,

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Offline Wildman

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2012, 05:43:09 PM »
Plain structured instructions might help a bunch with this.. :-\
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Offline Ray2047

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2012, 08:06:24 PM »
I have considered packaging as a hobby now that I'm retired but the info I found in the forum just wasn't on a level I could understand and seemed scattered in different places. I'd love to read a well written complete tutorial that started very basic and worked its way up with examples to help me understand.
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Offline sling-shot

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2012, 09:05:19 PM »
http://www.pclinuxoshelp.com/index.php/Packaging_for_PCLinuxOS

Just a few weeks or so back I began a quest to learn packaging with sole purpose of writing a guide on it.
The above is an initial release of such a guide.
I have already gone a bit beyond that and further improvements will be done incrementally.

Please read it carefully and try. Do mention your feedback here. Anything, however silly that it may sound.

The idea should be to look at packaging from a dummy's perspective.
Packaging well will cure headaches of many :) But learning to package will cause headaches in many :(

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Offline Rudge

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2012, 09:13:45 PM »
I agree with everything that has been said. I myself tried to learn how to package but there was simply no clear information about how to do it.


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Offline sling-shot

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2012, 10:23:31 PM »
I agree with everything that has been said. I myself tried to learn how to package but there was simply no clear information about how to do it.

What is your opinion about the above mentioned guide?
Packaging well will cure headaches of many :) But learning to package will cause headaches in many :(

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Offline Xenaflux

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2012, 10:45:52 PM »
Quote
Insert Quote
Quote from: Rudge on Yesterday at 23:13:45
I agree with everything that has been said. I myself tried to learn how to package but there was simply no clear information about how to do it.

What is your opinion about the above mentioned guide?
Posted on: Yesterday at 23:13:45

The guide is probably good, but will bring you 5 volunteers.
The same guide rewritten in html with a lot of pictures, might bring you 50 who want to try

I showed to my wife. First she said was: where are the pictures ?
Did not even tell her what it was about.

Pictures are to us what candy is to kids.
 ::) ::)
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as in what direction we are moving.
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Offline sling-shot

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2012, 10:58:07 PM »
Packaging does not seem to have much to do with pictures. However if you have any specific suggestion, I would gladly consider them.

The goal is : Whatever the newbie wants.
Packaging well will cure headaches of many :) But learning to package will cause headaches in many :(

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Offline Ray2047

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2012, 10:59:45 PM »
Embarrassed to admit it but got as far as:
Quote
Go to http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/pclinuxos/pclinuxos/apt/pclinuxos/2010 and scroll down to the SRPMS.(*) sections. Clicking any of those links will open that section, where you will find SRPMs for PCLinuxOS.
These are the best src.rpms to start out with learning to package upto PCLinuxOS standards. Study them. Look closely at how the spec files are written.
And then stalled out. Couldn't figure out what to do with the links those links took me to or what I was supposed to see when I opened the links at the links above. Hopefully pictures/screenshots would help.
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Offline Xenaflux

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2012, 11:06:31 PM »
Quote
Packaging does not seem to have much to do with pictures. However if you have any specific suggestion, I would gladly consider them.

The goal is : Whatever the newbie wants.

I fully realize that.
I just wanted to say, that for someone who know zilch-nada , a picture could explain something.
Therefore, packaging-students would maybe more willing to give it a try

post above:
Quote
And then stalled out. Couldn't figure out what to do with the links those links took me to or what I was supposed to see when I opened the links at the links above. Hopefully pictures/screenshots would help.
The great thing in this world is not so much where we stand,
as in what direction we are moving.
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Offline Rudge

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2012, 11:42:09 PM »
I got as far as actually trying to get the packaging software to do something "seeing the errors and such" but I think a clear "goal" has yet to be established.

Suppose I followed all the steps,, and got no errors (yet to happen for me), how would I know that it works and what the heck would I do with it?


-If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe-  Carl Sagan

Offline Neal ManBear

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2012, 01:18:14 AM »
RPM Build Manual     

Yes, it is old. Some things have changed since it was written. The pkgutils packages did not exist back then. The mkrepo script (part of pkgutils) is used to set up your directory structure and the hidden files .rpmmacros and .rpmrc, so the sections dealing with setting up / creating these is obsolete. It is worth reading as a way of understanding what is going on when you run mkrepo. The build commands (all changed since then) do not need to be entered into a terminal manually; they are available via right-click menu.     

The utilities contained in pkgutils were created to make building rpms quicker and easier. IMO, they do the job well.     

Offline Xenaflux

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Re: Desperately seeking MORE packagers - please join hands
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2012, 01:38:29 AM »
another one here:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-rpm1/

there are 3 parts (1-2-3)
The great thing in this world is not so much where we stand,
as in what direction we are moving.
                                                    (Oliver Wendell Holmes )