Iso download options

[cozzykim]

Most people are virtual slaves to what they're familiar with

My wife endured Vista for 3-4 years, constantly complaining, with me having to fix stuff.

It took a full 160GB drive to convince her to buy a bigger drive and put PCLOS on it, don't forget this is the wife of a die hard Linux fan boy 

Now she never asks for help, I don't worry about virtual infections, and she has all her data seamlessly transferred.

I've even gone as far as installing a clean dual boot of her original Vista and upgrading that to Win8 to see whether she's truly converted.

I must have been successful as her question was "isn't that just taking up space on my new disk  "

I also added classic shell to the Win8 install to make it look more familiar, to see whether that would raise any doubts, no it didn't

My point is that, as long as the new user feels comfortable, they'll accept whatever OS is under the bonnet (hood), but it either has to be made comfortable the instant it boots, or they have to have someone to show them around.

"but if you are really knew and just use the default MS apps like Internet explorer, MS office... on windows how shall a pic with firefox, LibreOffice, Thunderbird Icons become familiar to you?"

I fully accept that point, IE/Office/Outlook diehards are going to very hard to tempt, but most people who are looking for an alternative are at the download page for a good reason, and may well have already begun to use alternative applications, they shouldn't be allowed to turn back to the dark side 

Regards

Kim

P.S. I'm beginning to feel that this topic has hijacked the agmg concept a little bit, sorry that wasn't my intention. 

Please feel free to move it if required.

[russell.eberhardt]

but if you are really knew and just use the default MS apps like Internet explorer, MS office... on windows how shall a pic with firefox, LibreOffice, Thunderbird Icons become familiar to you?

I don't know if it's possible but how about a brief description appearing when you hover the poiter over an icon.  It could even say something like, "Internet Explorer equivalent"

I think most of us are in danger of forgetting just how unfamiliar the screen looks when you first see it.  I have converted a few people to PCLinux but I'm sure they would not have done it if I wasn't there. Only one has moved away and he went to Ubuntu rather than back to Windows. 

Russell.

[agmg]

First of all it is not my project, many people are working on it. I just started the conversation that turned to a project.
Second, there is no hijacking, I read your posts with great interest (maybe pick some good tips there ).

Regarding the alternative applications, we plan to have an article for this in the project.
I think it is one of the most important things for a new Linux user. Sometimes the application you might need is obvious or you were using the same one under Windows.
But what about all the other apps that are available and most of them have names that don't suggest their purpose?

[cozzykim]

First of all it is not my project, many people are working on it. I just started the conversation that turned to a project.
Second, there is no hijacking, I read your posts with great interest (maybe pick some good tips there ).

Regarding the alternative applications, we plan to have an article for this in the project.
I think it is one of the most important things for a new Linux user. Sometimes the application you might need is obvious or you were using the same one under Windows.
But what about all the other apps that are available and most of them have names that don't suggest their purpose?

Thanks agmg.

I think the articles in your the project are crucial, once the potential user has the OS installed and waiting to be explored.

In my own experience that has been one of the joys of Linux, finding applications that do the job as well or better than their Win equivalents.

I still have a legal XP installed under VBox, for M$ Access and I still have to run Philips WADM, (for transferring music to our WiFi music machine) under a full install of Win7, (or there's no embedded album art, yes it's a silly reason I know).

I'm O.K. with that I suppose 

You have to get the potential user to the point where they have the OS up and running first, that won't happen if it doesn't look familiar at least in some way.

As OSX and Linux climb up the steep hill towards replacing WinX, we need to take the opportunities that are offered by new users, but on their terms not on ours.

Linux used to be a "geek only" OS, and the (sometimes) elitist RTFM brigade seemed to revel in that exclusivity.
This is now changing, thankfully, and anyone that has ever struggled with tars and missing libraries will appreciate just how smooth PCLOS is. It's a superb advantage that shouldn't be underestimated IMHO.

The opportunity to present and promote that advantage should be taken any way available.

Russel's post above reflects my own experience with converting people.

Regards

Kim

[russell.eberhardt]

I think the articles in your the project are crucial, once the potential user has the OS installed and waiting to be explored.

Yes, agmg's article looks very good for the explorer but most computer users just want to use it and not play around.  I am, of course excluding everyone on this forum .  For the average computer user who has become fed up with Windows it has to be kept much simpler, the KISS principle. By the time they have read halfway through the description of the different desktop environments they will either be frightened off or asleep.

I'm not sure what the answer is.  Perhaps have a separate idiot's guide or introduce the more advanced concepts and more choices much later on.

Getting back to the original topic, yes, the popular windows equivalent program icons should already be on the default destop.  There are just too many entries in the Aplication Launcher Menu.  Perhaps a simple and an advanced option here?  Updates should be automatic by default and simple.  Synaptic is a bit intimidating at first (one reason a friend changed to Ubuntu).

I hope it doesn't look as if I'm knocking PCLinux, far from it.  For me it is by far the best flavour of Linux I've tried but if we want to promote Linux to a wider audience it must be made simple to start with.

Russell

[smileeb]

  Just my two cents worth, ( $.02 ). 

I think this is becoming a mountain. It did not matter what Operating system you ran, you
had no training on it.

You just went and clicked on icons to see what happened and learned from there.

If you had a problem you would ask questions on that OSs forum, do a search in their forum
or google. You might even ask relatives or friends you knew who were using the same OS.

I used MS and Ubu and found that this forum is the best for help and friendliness.

[Grandpa]

When I first start looking at Linux the names of the apps were so foreign to me.  The names are still that way.  If you are looking for the first time and you wanted to rip a music c-d.  What is there about the name K3b to make you think,"I need to use that".  There are many such examples like that.  You look at synaptic and for a new person you are lost.  I believe that is where we lose so many people.  I believe if there was a icon on the desktop of the live c-d that took you to a place that gave examples of programs for common tasks would be a great help.  At the end of the list there could be a hint to use "google" to find more.  The icon should also be install on the desktop of a new install.  For those of us who do not need such help we could delete it.  I know when I first went to synaptic to find a program all I found were a bunch of crazy names.  I could not search for something because I didn't have clue what it was called.  

[YouCanToo]

When I first start looking at Linux the names of the apps were so foreign to me.  The names are still that way.  If you are looking for the first time and you wanted to rip a music c-d.  What is there about the name K3b to make you think,"I need to use that".  There are many such examples like that.  You look at synaptic and for a new person you are lost.  I believe that is where we lose so many people.  I believe if there was a icon on the desktop of the live c-d that took you to a place that gave examples of programs for common tasks would be a great help.  At the end of the list there could be a hint to use "google" to find more.  The icon should also be install on the desktop of a new install.  For those of us who do not need such help we could delete it.  I know when I first went to synaptic to find a program all I found were a bunch of crazy names.  I could not search for something because I didn't have clue what it was called.  

Did it occur to you to search for what you were looking for, instead of a name for the program. Say for example a cd burner. How about doing a search fro "cd burner" instead of say K3B or Nero.  By the way Nero doesn't give you and more indication on what it does the K3B unless you have already heard and know what it does.  Normally searching for what a program does is just as important as to what it is called.

[Grandpa]

YouCanToo at that point in time the answer is no.  I was just starting with Linux.  BTW I was just using K3b as an example.  But hey why should we bother.  Right!!

[russell.eberhardt]

Did it occur to you to search for what you were looking for, instead of a name for the program. Say for example a cd burner. How about doing a search fro "cd burner" instead of say K3B or Nero.  By the way Nero doesn't give you and more indication on what it does the K3B unless you have already heard and know what it does.  Normally searching for what a program does is just as important as to what it is called.

Of course, we all know that.  However a newbie doesn't and is likely to just give up.

Russell.

[Neal ManBear]

I'll revamp my original suggestion, how about including familiar application links prominently on the full monty desktop, along with the network wizard.

     
Have you looked at Full Monty? 6 virtual desktops with a different set of icons on each are provided. Each has its own focus - office, internet and so on.     

I understand about wanting to help newcomers. I do not understand the request to "make it more like windows" or "create a new ISO that looks/works like windows." There is a learning curve for anything that is new to you - no matter what it is. Would you start a new job and insist that it be like your old job, so that you didn't need to learn to do things differently?     

Please do not be offended and please do not misunderstand. I do not think that any member of the Bacon Brigade has any extra time to create a "windows look-alike/be-alike," even if any one of us had such an inclination. It is one thing to tell us "redo xxx to these specifications and quite another to do such work. [Personally, there is no way I'd take on a project to make Linux into a windows equivalent. What a coding nightmare that would be. ]     

[parnote]

I think the articles in your the project are crucial, once the potential user has the OS installed and waiting to be explored.

Yes, agmg's article looks very good for the explorer but most computer users just want to use it and not play around.  I am, of course excluding everyone on this forum .  For the average computer user who has become fed up with Windows it has to be kept much simpler, the KISS principle. By the time they have read halfway through the description of the different desktop environments they will either be frightened off or asleep.

I'm not sure what the answer is.  Perhaps have a separate idiot's guide or introduce the more advanced concepts and more choices much later on.

I really don't want to hijack this thread ... but I want to clear up some misconceptions here.

agmg isn't the only one working on the "Windows Migration" articles. These series of articles are being done by the magazine staff, including myself, Meemaw, agmg and Critter ... to name a few. In creating these articles, we are very cognizant of the users we are targeting, and we are writing them with their knowledge level of Linux in mind. We are following the KISS principle. Sometimes, the KISS principle requires a slightly longer explanation, to insure that all users can follow along. In the process, we are not only covering the choices under PCLinuxOS (desktop environments) but also how to make room on their Windows computer for a dual boot, how to partition their hard drive, how to install PCLinuxOS, and many other topics that new users (previously accustomed to a Windows environment) may be reluctant or scared to do. Our goal is to make the transition from Windows to PCLinuxOS as painless and smooth as possible, while showing them what they have been missing.

OK ... now back to our previously scheduled programming ............


parnote

[Xenaflux]

Just a story !
Some of you know that I was/am involved in the educational sector.
You may think: students. Yes, but my biggest involvement, when it comes to Linux,  is with adult students and teaching staff.
I was used to install distro's on their computers, any one they wanted, as long as it was not slack, debian xyz or any other complicated setup.
I have done that over and over for years.
And every time, without one exception, ..>>....this is to long, that is to green, this is to small, that is to purple, that is FF..why don't they have IE. Why is this not like.... and why do you have to...and why don't you....I can not find this and that ....
Short and sweet...complaints , coming from unwillingness to change and learn.

However, the 'Prince on the white horse' came along. His name was ' Virtualbox'.
Now I make images of the list that gets delivered to me by a student.
( shtt...I get paid for it )
I export them to .ova (or whatever they want with a particular image )
The same student comes once a week with his "WD my passport" or 'Seagate backup', copies
the images and guess what............?
Each and every person ( read : new linux student ) can import from image.ova and do just as they like, over and over again
Every one happy !
End of my soap opera 

So, what I want to say is this I guess.
If you want to promote Linux, it seems better that you teach windows users about Virtualbox and how to import an image, than trying to teach them on a hard drive.
Teach them " Howto play with....it " and let them learn the fun way.

Now, that was my 5 cent for the day.
 

[cozzykim]

I understand about wanting to help newcomers. I do not understand the request to "make it more like windows" or "create a new ISO that looks/works like windows." There is a learning curve for anything that is new to you - no matter what it is. Would you start a new job and insist that it be like your old job, so that you didn't need to learn to do things differently?

Yikes, whoaaa. 

Not like Windows, I don't want Windows, I'm happy with PCLOS, I don't even want it "more like" Windows.

I see people who are fed up with Windows being directed to other distro's live CDs. I point them towards PCLOS as much as possible, that's all.

I really don't want to hijack this thread ... but I want to clear up some misconceptions here.

agmg isn't the only one working on the "Windows Migration" articles. These series of articles are being done by the magazine staff, including myself, Meemaw, agmg and Critter ... to name a few. In creating these articles, we are very cognizant of the users we are targeting, and we are writing them with their knowledge level of Linux in mind. We are following the KISS principle. Sometimes, the KISS principle requires a slightly longer explanation, to insure that all users can follow along. In the process, we are not only covering the choices under PCLinuxOS (desktop environments) but also how to make room on their Windows computer for a dual boot, how to partition their hard drive, how to install PCLinuxOS, and many other topics that new users (previously accustomed to a Windows environment) may be reluctant or scared to do. Our goal is to make the transition from Windows to PCLinuxOS as painless and smooth as possible, while showing them what they have been missing.

OK ... now back to our previously scheduled programming ............


parnote

Again 

I got pointed to the migration articles by agmg, and then used that as a "literary reference" if you like to refer to the project, instead of typing;

"These series of articles are being done by the magazine staff, including myself, Meemaw, agmg and Critter ... to name a few. In creating these articles, we are very cognizant of the users we are targeting, and we are writing them with their knowledge level of Linux in mind. We are following the KISS principle. Sometimes, the KISS principle requires a slightly longer explanation, to insure that all users can follow along. In the process, we are not only covering the choices under PCLinuxOS (desktop environments) but also how to make room on their Windows computer for a dual boot, how to partition their hard drive, how to install PCLinuxOS, and many other topics that new users (previously accustomed to a Windows environment) may be reluctant or scared to do. Our goal is to make the transition from Windows to PCLinuxOS as painless and smooth as possible, while showing them what they have been missing."

Just convenient shorthand to refer to the project, which I hadn't seen before.

I guess this is all about psychology, if potential converts get directed to a site which has a very slick front page and explains in which ways they will be able to use said OS to continue to do the things they are familiar with, then they will possibly make the leap of faith to try out said OS.

They may well miss out on a variant of that OS which has a better method of maintaining the system over a longer term, and thus miss out on the major benefit of that variant over the first one.

A comparison can be made here; Windows users buy a PC/Laptop with WinX already on it, they use it because it's just, there.
They get used to it and defend it until it finally gets them frustrated with its shortcomings.
They go looking for something without those shortcomings.
Some (maybe most) of them end up with MacOS along with its hardware, because it's the next best known option.
Less, but a good number, end up with a variant of Linux, and there's one variant that's becoming dominant because it's out there promoting itself.
That leaves other Linux variants, one of which I came to after trying half a dozen others, and stuck with because it's the best (IMO) demonstrated by the fact that I've hardly ever had to ask for help here, apart from to try and recover the functionality of my obsolete graphics cards
I'm doing my best to avoid the swear filter here (by not naming names of other popular Linux variants of course)

Sometimes, as one or two have agreed, all it takes is for the potential user to see an icon that they may be familiar with, and they'll go for it.
It's human nature to avoid that which you don't understand, (well, not us, because whatever we may think, we're mostly geeks).

I have no intention, or need, to rock the boat, it was only a suggestion.

Easily forgotten.

Meanwhile, I'll carry on using PCLOS, as I have for a good few years.

Thanks all.

[Grandpa]

Well I know one thing for sure.  If it going to be covered in the magazine.  It will be well done, as everything in the magazine is well done.