Author Topic: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?  (Read 1074 times)

Offline Bald Brick

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2012, 07:04:56 AM »
Vanguard-741,

If you listen to both classical music and rock in rapid succession, you may really have a problem.

Most (but not all) recordings of rock and pop music are heavily compressed to begin with - and I'm talking about dynamic range compression, not data compression, so this simply means that the the difference between loud sounds and quieter sounds isn't very great. When you listen to a classical symphony with good equipment at home you'd want the opposite: as large a dynamic range as possible. This means that listening to the same recording in your car you may not hear the softest sounds at all - and if you do, the next piece may shatter your eardrums.

Because of this radio companies add their own compression to the music when it's broadcast. For most popular music that won't change much. For classical music it does mean a reduction of quality, a large step on the way of turning the symphony into Muzak. (The compression levels of radio programs may be set to vary according to the broadcast material or with the time of day.)

So while it's possible that one of the the programs so far recommended is all you need, I think that you aren't only looking for a way of adjusting the "volume". You want to adjust the dynamic range without compromising too much of the music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 10:12:27 AM by Bald Brick »
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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2012, 08:45:33 AM »
Bald Brick makes a good point.  Audacity can help with adding compression to musical tracks, but it's a subject to be approached after some study and experimentation, and a light hand.  Too much compression is generally worse than not enough (and he covered why that is pretty well, too).

Audacity's "Undo" function (in the Edit menu) comes in handy when I get too heavy-handed on compression and other effects.

Later On,
D
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Offline Linux-Blue

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 08:58:28 PM »
I'll try to answer some questions or statements here.

I am actually wanting them burned on a CD as well. A good volume in my car is between 10-12. 9 is okay, but typically have it up between 10-12.
On one CD for sure so far, it is 16. maybe a little less during loud parts of the song.

One or two others, it's sort of high even at 8 or 9.

I love classical, and I know, that doesn't always go well when it comes to keeping the same volume. I like rock, I suppose. It would be up there, but I don't get into it has much.


I know that classical music will have soft spots in the songs, and some very loud spots as well. I don't want a quiet violin to have the same volume as a drum beating hard. I guess if the overall loudness is still not quite loud enough, it'd be nice to have the song louder.
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Offline gseaman

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 09:07:48 PM »
I don't listen to classical music in the car. It is not satisfying. Most jazz is ok, except for acoustic bass solos. ;)
I would definitely use compression for any classical music if you want to listen in the car. You will enjoy it more. (Although, you don't want to overdo it.)

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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2012, 03:05:05 AM »
I'll try to answer some questions or statements here.

I am actually wanting them burned on a CD as well. A good volume in my car is between 10-12. 9 is okay, but typically have it up between 10-12.
On one CD for sure so far, it is 16. maybe a little less during loud parts of the song.

One or two others, it's sort of high even at 8 or 9.

I love classical, and I know, that doesn't always go well when it comes to keeping the same volume. I like rock, I suppose. It would be up there, but I don't get into it has much.

I know that classical music will have soft spots in the songs, and some very loud spots as well. I don't want a quiet violin to have the same volume as a drum beating hard. I guess if the overall loudness is still not quite loud enough, it'd be nice to have the song louder.

For CD burning, you should look at using an Audio Project in K3B.  You can directly load music files in any format your system understands (e.g., MP3, FLAC, OGG, WMV, etc.) and K3B will automatically transcode them to WAV on the burned CD to meet appropriate ISO standards for audio CD tracks.

In the Audio Project dialog box, before burning, click the Advanced tab, then the checkbox for Normalize all tracks.  One stop for transcoding and normalizing.  Normalization in K3B is done to RIAA-standardized levels (yeah, they control that, too... at least in the U.S.) after the transcoding is accomplished.  The normalization function of K3B does add time to the overall project, and it is pretty basic.   The governing algorithm is to amplify both tracks by the same amount needed to bring the highest peak in either channel of each track to -3db, so it preserves dynamics and intentional imbalances in the original source pretty well while making volume levels from track to track (and disk to disk) much more consistent for disks on which it is used.

Try to use high enough quality tracks so that there is minimal loss during transcoding - I find best results for MP3 are at bit rates of 192 kbps and up, but for automotive use even 128 kbps is high enough unless your car's listening environment is super-quiet.  Garbage in is still gonna equal garbage out.  (I generally do all my own MP3s at 224 kpbs - good compromise between file size and quality is reached here.)

Other disk burning packages (e.g., CDRoast, Brasero, etc.) may or may not support equivalent functions, but I haven't used any of those in a long time since learning to use K3B - it's just too easy.

Is your car player capable of playing MP3 and other digital formats from a data disk?  (Some later model car stereos can do this, and even have USB Ports and audio plugs for MP3 players built-in.)  Only reason I ask is because WAV/Audio CD is a terribly inefficient format - it's main benefits are decent quality and compatibility.  There's usually a logo that says "MP3-compatible" or some such on the faceplate somewhere, or check your owner's manual if it's the factory stereo unit.

Good luck and happy burning.

Later On,
D
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Offline Linux-Blue

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 12:12:59 PM »
My car has nothing special for music. A 2009 and no place to plug in a smart phone/mp3, no usb. Just CD Audio.

It has been ages, but I thought I was on linux, and was able to raise the volume before the actual burning. I don't remember using much on linux at the time, being such a new person. I remember K3B, and, well, that may have been all I remember. I see the normalize, how exactly does that work? Does it take all tracks into consideration, and find the medium? or average? or does it a single track and find the average? or loudest point?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 12:20:29 PM by Vanguard-741 »
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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 04:23:02 PM »
My car has nothing special for music. A 2009 and no place to plug in a smart phone/mp3, no usb. Just CD Audio.

It has been ages, but I thought I was on linux, and was able to raise the volume before the actual burning. I don't remember using much on linux at the time, being such a new person. I remember K3B, and, well, that may have been all I remember. I see the normalize, how exactly does that work? Does it take all tracks into consideration, and find the medium? or average? or does it a single track and find the average? or loudest point?

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear earlier.  That's a failure on my part, so let me try again to find the words that will do the trick:

Normalization in K3B analyzes each track in the project individually, finds the maximum peak in that track (or track pair for stereo tracks) and amplifies/attenuates the entire track such that the maximum peak in the track is set to a -3db level.  It does this on the fly, in turn, for each track in the project.  As a result, some tracks may be amplified and others may be attenuated, depending on what level they were at originally.

As an example of this, say a stereo track's maximum peak signal is at -5db in the left channel.  The entire track pair would then be amplified by 2db to bring the new maximum to -3db.  The rest of the track's levels would rise by the same amount, and so would remain in proportion - the entire track would get "louder" by the same amount, with the dynamic variations within the track preserved (just as if you had reached for the volume knob on the stereo and turned it up a bit.)

If another track in the project had a maximum level of -1db, the normalization would attenuate the overall signal by 2db, and it's apparent volume would be lessened to bring it to the same level as the previous track, -3db.

The result is that the maximum levels of all tracks in the project are the same, namely -3db.  Dynamic range for each track is preserved, as everything in the track is altered by the same amount (e.g., no compression or other effect to selectively alter softer parts is applied).  This usually works pretty well for all types of music for most purposes - the -3db level is generally where commercial CDs are mastered, for reasons already discussed. 

If you need to do something more sophisticated, such as removing DC Offset, hiss, pops, or scratches, or are wanting to boost CDs to higher levels (BE CAREFUL with this), K3B's normalization is not the way to go. In those cases, Audacity or something like it would be better.  That said, normalizing in K3B is an easy process, and is far less time-intensive than individually editing tracks which you would then burn to a CD anyway. 

(I say be careful with higher levels of amplification because it can cause clipping and other distortion to creep into your recordings and make them sound worse.  Very high levels of amplification can also do damage to your playback equipment over time.)

The advantages of doing the normalization in K3B are that it does pin all the tracks to the same safe maximum level quickly and easily, and makes burning a CD from multiple diverse sources (which may be recorded in different formats and at different levels) a one-stop process.

Does that help clarify it for you?  The best way, of course, is to experiment with some known track sets that contain enough variation in signal levels for you to be able to hear the difference any processing makes.  Burn a couple of CDs - one without normalization and one with it, and give them a listen.  If the original tracks were of sufficiently differing levels, the change will be immediately apparent.

The biggest single thing you can do to improve CD "listen-ability" is to start with the best quality sources for your audio projects.  Normalizing junky little 56kbps MP3s will still sound like crap, only crap at a consistent volume level.  Even FLAC can sound bad if the original source was not up to par to begin with, but FLAC that is recorded on good equipment from clean original sources can have truly amazing sound quality.

Good luck in getting what you want to do done.  One word of warning though:  getting good results with audio recordings can become a quite addictive little hobby.  Have fun, and enjoy your music!

Later On,
D

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Offline Linux-Blue

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 09:15:42 PM »
Thank you for that bit of information. Normalize in K3B so far, seems to be the best. I tried two of the same songs, one without the normalized effect, one with. The one with seems a touch louder. Loud enough I suppose.

I did use something, I can't remember what, it was a linux software, back in 2006, 2007, not sure. I was able to raise the volume. it doesn't matter. K3b and normalize seems to be just fine. I should have remembered that. i had some ambient music that was awfully weak when playing in my old truck. Normalizing it sure gave it a boost without it getting distorted.

thank you all again. I apologize for delays, trying to learn what I can do on here.
Soundkonverter I got down well, as far as being mp3 at a bitrate I like.
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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 10:04:56 PM »
Glad I could be of some small service. 

Yeah, K3B Normalizing is "safe" and it's also simple and quick.  For audio CDs it really is set up with very sane defaults.

I would recommend to you that you play with Audacity when you get the time - it can really work wonders on tracks that have problems (noise, pops, scratches, hiss, etc.) and is a useful addition to any audiophile's toolkit.  (It's also a dandy recorder, too.)

I fondly remember a tool in KDE 3.X called kaudioconverter that worked very well for ripping from CD/DVD.  Is Soundkonverter similar to that?

Later On,
D
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Offline T6

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2012, 08:17:18 AM »
asunder cd ripper
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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2012, 02:09:11 PM »
asunder cd ripper

Heh.  As in "ripped that CD asunder".  Nice mental image there, T6.  I've never used asunder myself, but see where it gets good reviews.

Later On,
D
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Offline Linux-Blue

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2012, 03:05:56 PM »
CD asunder seems to be working. grip doesn't.  grip used to, not sure why it hangs now, but it does. DVD makes crazy sounds, and then the distro can't detect the actual DVD drive. I have to reboot the system to see it again.

asunder is nice, and takes care of me copying music from linux to the mac. The more linux and less mac, the better.

otherwise it's burning music using K3B, then putting the disc in the mac, and having that import the music, then taking those mp3s over to linux again, and using easytag to edit the music.

thanks. Looks like everything is looking good.
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Offline horusfalcon

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2012, 06:46:57 PM »
CD asunder seems to be working. grip doesn't.  grip used to, not sure why it hangs now, but it does. DVD makes crazy sounds, and then the distro can't detect the actual DVD drive. I have to reboot the system to see it again.

What kind of "crazy sounds" are we talking here?  If the head is seeking a lot (clicking or clunking noises) try running a cleaner disk to clean the optics.  If more of a grinding or squealing sound, look seriously at replacing the drive.  It sounds like you may have an incipient failure of the drive on your hands from this description.

Quote
asunder is nice, and takes care of me copying music from linux to the mac. The more linux and less mac, the better.

otherwise it's burning music using K3B, then putting the disc in the mac, and having that import the music, then taking those mp3s over to linux again, and using easytag to edit the music.

thanks. Looks like everything is looking good.

You're welcome!   ;D

Sure is nice to find tools that work well for you, isn't it?  That's a point of the discussion that gets missed sometimes - folks should use what works for them in their situation.  It's really cool that Linux allows us to do that without spending too much money, or putting up with trial-ware, ad-ware, or worse.

Glad you got a solution that works for you.  Don't forget to keep looking, though, as new tools are coming out all the time for doing audio with Linux.

If you haven't looked at it yet, you may want to consider kaudiocreator - it's in the repos, and is fairly easy to use.  It provides a front end to cdparanoia for ripping/conversion, and a metadata editor for updating tag info.  It's reasonably fast, and, given a decent bitrate to work to, turns out very listenable MP3s, or it can also rip to WAV, OGG, or FLAC.

Hint:  when you open the "Configure KaudioCreator" option from Settings, maximize the dialog box.  Certain features get squashed or hidden in some desktop environments otherwise.

Heh... I've given you something new to play with, so go play.  Have fun - that's an order!   :D

Later On,
D
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Offline Linux-Blue

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2012, 11:57:13 AM »
never fails on display, when you want it to that is.

Grip is ripping music. Only thing I can think of is this is a real CD, not a CD-R.
All of my music is basically in the car, and 90% are CD-R.
I know the player can read it. It did on other CD-Rs, including a certain distro I have on my laptop :)

It is fun to try new things as I will be doing more so, like what you suggested, and whatever else is out there.
Still not sure on how to extract tar bz, or whatever.
Have no need to yet, but I will probably come across it again soon.

I want to say, when grip doesn't work, it sounds like a player just trying to read the disc, and just never does. If it was loud, screechy, or whatever, I'd remember getting the disc out in a hurry or turning off the computer. Next year, I plan to get a good desktop and install Linux on it. Right now, it's my moms old laptop.
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Offline T6

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Re: Any software to be able to have volume raised in the MP3 when burning?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2012, 12:17:57 PM »
"Only thing I can think of is this is a real CD, not a CD-R"

cd-r and cd is basically the same when you rip songs from it afik, both are real cds
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