Re: Looking for THE laptop expert (SOLVED!)

[bicol_willem]

How in the world a "boot" and a "reboot" can differ?

Maybe something along the lines of graphic card initialisation .......  not being done as you would expect on Linux from a cold boot situation ...... 

......  but on a reboot, the card is already initialised and so the problem does not present itself.

Such a conclusion makes some sense....
I wonder as to why this seems to affect all Linux distro's I throw at it so far. Only by luck (Russian roulette) a liveCD willl boot every now and then. It got to be hidden in the ATI/AMD combo at hand.
Alas, my brain is tired about it. We'll see it through as is, for now. Maybe a future kernel or driver will eventually solve this.

[Just17]

How in the world a "boot" and a "reboot" can differ?

Maybe something along the lines of graphic card initialisation .......  not being done as you would expect on Linux from a cold boot situation ...... 

......  but on a reboot, the card is already initialised and so the problem does not present itself.

Such a conclusion makes some sense....
I wonder as to why this seems to affect all Linux distro's I throw at it so far. Only by luck (Russian roulette) a liveCD willl boot every now and then. It got to be hidden in the ATI/AMD combo at hand.
Alas, my brain is tired about it. We'll see it through as is, for now. Maybe a future kernel or driver will eventually solve this.

As to the why .....  the various suggestions received to now would be the first places to look .....  particularly the BIOS settings, and if possible to turn off the unwanted graphics to see if that helped.
Some BIOS's have two sections for plug in cards ....  one maybe for preference but the 'turn-off' of onboard could be in a different section.
I am not saying the choice is there .....  only that it can be 'hidden' - or rather placed where one might not expect to see it.

After installation, a 'work-around' might be to use auto-login ... thus avoiding the need for blind typing.

You have an 'interesting' problem    ....  but if the problem is apparent on various Linux distros then it is likely that Linux cannot yet get the needed info in a timely fashion from the graphics-hardware/firmware/BIOS whereas Win can of course, as those things are built for Win use.

On that basis there is not much you can do, unless there might be some boot parameter that would kick things into line.

All the above are just musings .....  obviously I have nothing worthwhile to add to the thread 

[kjpetrie]

In all this, you have not given us the precise model number of the laptop. There could be a simple answer on Google. As all distributions of Linux are affected, the problem, and therefore the answer, is not specific to pclos and someone running a different distro might have found the answer which, with a little adaptation, will probably work here too.

It might be:

A BIOS/UEFI configuration needs to be set,
A particular kernel boot option is needed,
A particular kernel configuration option is needed at compilation,
A special driver needs to be installed,
A particular module needs to be added to the initrd, or
The kernel needs a special patch to be applied before compiling.

Unless you're the first person to try to boot Linux on this model of laptop, it's likely the answer is out there somewhere.

[mellon]

With the 3.2 kernel my laptop (HP DV7 pavilion 1150 ED) X will not start unless I specify a nokmsboot option in menu.lst.

Here is a quote on what kms is:
'KMS stands for "kernel mode switching". It means that the Linux kernel is responsible for the video frame buffer and for switching between video resolutions, instead of the graphics driver. This is a fairly recent addition to Linux, and not all graphics drivers have caught up with the new way of doing things.'

Another option that seems to fix (according to some search results) display driver related boot issues is 'nomodeset'. No idea what it actually does.

Could not hurt to try, could it?

Mellon

[luikki]

stubborn as i'm  i would go for a different approach:
wipe the hdd... install pclinuxos... and see...

[horusfalcon]

stubborn as i'm  i would go for a different approach:
wipe the hdd... install pclinuxos... and see...

As paranoid as I am, I wouldn't dig such a hole for myself without knowing I could climb back out.  Make sure you have your recovery disks for the original operating system made and checked first, then it's weapons free and fire at will.

Has anyone already suggested choosing an alternate login manager, perhaps?  It seems this is what's hanging up the works... Maybe switching to XDM might help?  (In PCLinuxOS this is done most easily from the PCLinuxOS Control Center, but it can be done manually by editing the configuration file - I think it's /etc/Xsession, but I'm not sure, as it's been a while since I had to mess with any of this.)

Later On,
D

[bicol_willem]

In all this, you have not given us the precise model number of the laptop. There could be a simple answer on Google. As all distributions of Linux are affected, the problem, and therefore the answer, is not specific to pclos and someone running a different distro might have found the answer which, with a little adaptation, will probably work here too.

It might be:

A BIOS/UEFI configuration needs to be set,
A particular kernel boot option is needed,
A particular kernel configuration option is needed at compilation,
A special driver needs to be installed,
A particular module needs to be added to the initrd, or
The kernel needs a special patch to be applied before compiling.

Unless you're the first person to try to boot Linux on this model of laptop, it's likely the answer is out there somewhere.

I started with:
The specs of the laptop are:
AMD Dual core processor E450
AMD Radeon HD6320
2 Gb DDR3
500 Gb HDD

lspci shows;
marlene@Laptop-eMD443:~$ lspci
(all specs there, have a look)



A BIOS/UEFI configuration needs to be set,
NOthing UEFI can be found in the (simple straight foreward) BIOS
A particular kernel boot option is needed,
Which one could that be?
A particular kernel configuration option is needed at compilation,
I guess so ... but which one is the question.
A special driver needs to be installed,
Yeah .... I tend to agree but again: Which one?
A particular module needs to be added to the initrd, or
The kernel needs a special patch to be applied before compiling.
I agree as things don't work as is. But I can't find any solution in i.e Synaptic.
I tried various kernels as well, no go 

Quite a few have tried hard to suggest a solution, so far we all were not able to figure it out.
Like many here, I guess, I have never see something like this.

To help out further, eM stands for "eMachines". Type is d443 with the given specs. But I thought that was clear (sorry if not)

The answer is probably out there (if any) but ... I can't find it.
The laptop came with Linpus Linux pre-installed but ... no X or any desktop. A farce.
The driver CD contains drivers for (guess what?) Windows.
It is obviously that this thing is sold with in mind saving on Windows tax. (Which sounds like a good idea to me).
It is really not that I give up easy but I have done and tried all what is my power and knowledge. There it stops for me.

[bicol_willem]

stubborn as i'm  i would go for a different approach:
wipe the hdd... install pclinuxos... and see...

Been there, done that.
Like always it takes a lot of boot trials and choosing options before the (any for that matter) LiveCD boots (I guess just by luck as I never saw any other indication).
Once booted up it is easy to install, and the LiveCD, as well as the new install, works fine. Tried that several times. The first boot is in fact a reboot and gives no problems.
Set the laptop aside for a while and ..... it won't boot in (any) Linux. That is actually not correct as Linux does boot but no further then login or start X.
No need to mention Windows boot without any failure (and runs quite fast on this thing). I got Win7 64 bit on it now ONLY to boot my Linux. (Well, that is to say, my wife's Linux). Such exercises don't really impress her and I guess soon the reboots into Linux will be skipped. (Logic at work).
At first I installed Windows to check if it had the same problems and maybe indicated a hardware failure somehow. Not the case. Then I went for dual and tripple boot and discovered that a reboot was the only way to boot Linux. And that way has never failed so far.
I am out of ideas, really.

[Just17]

Did you try the boot options suggested by mellon above?

[bicol_willem]

With the 3.2 kernel my laptop (HP DV7 pavilion 1150 ED) X will not start unless I specify a nokmsboot option in menu.lst.

Here is a quote on what kms is:
'KMS stands for "kernel mode switching". It means that the Linux kernel is responsible for the video frame buffer and for switching between video resolutions, instead of the graphics driver. This is a fairly recent addition to Linux, and not all graphics drivers have caught up with the new way of doing things.'

Another option that seems to fix (according to some search results) display driver related boot issues is 'nomodeset'. No idea what it actually does.

Could not hurt to try, could it?

Mellon

"specify a nokmsboot option in menu.lst. "

How would I do so  

"This is a fairly recent addition to Linux, and not all graphics drivers have caught up with the new way of doing things.'"

I think I saw something like that in xxbuntu repo's. Even installed a driver that was obviously aimed at just that (or am I wrong?).

xvba-va-driver
<(X-Video Bitstream Acceleration (XvBA), designed by AMD for its ATI/AMD Radeon
GPU, is a future extension of the X video extension (Xv) for the X Window
System on Linux operating-systems. XvBA API allows video programs to offload
portions of the video decoding process to the GPU video-hardware. Currently,
the portions designed to be offloaded by XvBA onto the GPU are motion
compensation (mo comp) and inverse discrete cosine transform (iDCT), and VLD
(Variable-Length Decoding) for MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) and VC-1 encoded
video.
This driver only works with the proprietary fglrx driver from AMD.)>


Now looking at fglrx-amdcccle  
(Catalyst Control Center for the AMD Radeon and FireGL graphics accelerators.

This package provides the Catalyst Control Center, Linux Edition)
in the hope that contains a solution.

I didn't found much amd related in our repo's so far. (But will have a look again there if this all gives a solution for xxuntu)

Tomorrow I know  

I should not forget that the systems run fine when up and my trials could bork them 

[Bald Brick]

Have you tried starting X with startx in a terminal after booting into runlevel 3 and logging in?

When the system locks up at the log-in screen, does it really lock up or can you get to a TTY with Ctrl+Alt+F1 or Ctrl+Alt+F2?

[mellon]

How would I do so

By editing the correct menu.lst file in the correct /boot/grub folder.
Use kdesu kwrite from a terminal and open the menu.lst file. Then insert nokmsboot as e.g. in the below example. You may also remove options like quiet. You need to see the flow of actions that occur during boot.

title ** PCLinuxOS 2012 ** HD1 (kernel 3.2.18-pclos2.pae.bfs sym links)
kernel (hd1,0)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=LABEL=linsys_d1_a nokmsboot acpi=on resume=LABEL=linswap_d1 vga=788
initrd (hd1,0)/boot/initrd.img

With no 'nokmsboot' option the boot on my laptop starts with a normal view of the boot process, but after a few seconds it would change the screen resolution and the fonts are much smaller. Before init5 it hangs for a full minute and then continues until I get a terminal windows with a log in screen.
At that stage I can log in as user. I then su to root. I do
cd /ect/X11
mv xorg.conf xorg.conf. old
exit

back as user I key in
Startx

and I reach my desktop. 

By using the 'nokmsboot' option I get the normal graphical log in screen.

Mellon

[bicol_willem]

Have you tried starting X with startx in a terminal after booting into runlevel 3 and logging in?

When the system locks up at the log-in screen, does it really lock up or can you get to a TTY with Ctrl+Alt+F1 or Ctrl+Alt+F2?

No I didn't try that yet. Will do so as soon Mrs leave the laptop.
And yes, it locks up completely. Only a power switch action get's us out.

[bicol_willem]

How would I do so

By editing the correct menu.lst file in the correct /boot/grub folder.
Use kdesu kwrite from a terminal and open the menu.lst file. Then insert nokmsboot as e.g. in the below example. You may also remove options like quiet. You need to see the flow of actions that occur during boot.

title ** PCLinuxOS 2012 ** HD1 (kernel 3.2.18-pclos2.pae.bfs sym links)
kernel (hd1,0)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=LABEL=linsys_d1_a nokmsboot acpi=on resume=LABEL=linswap_d1 vga=788
initrd (hd1,0)/boot/initrd.img

With no 'nokmsboot' option the boot on my laptop starts with a normal view of the boot process, but after a few seconds it would change the screen resolution and the fonts are much smaller. Before init5 it hangs for a full minute and then continues until I get a terminal windows with a log in screen.
At that stage I can log in as user. I then su to root. I do
cd /ect/X11
mv xorg.conf xorg.conf. old
exit

back as user I key in
Startx

and I reach my desktop. 

By using the 'nokmsboot' option I get the normal graphical log in screen.

Mellon

I am going to try that as well, just to know. But it doesn't sound as a solution for Mrs! She hates complications.... 

[kjpetrie]

OK, so part of the model number is incorporated in the networking name for the computer. That isn't the same as the full model number.

Well the good news is that eMachines sell a version of this machine with Linpus Linux pre-installed (http://www.emachines.com.ph/ec/en/PH/content/model/LX.NE30C.009), so it is capable of running Linux as the main OS without Windows if it's a similar machine.

I did not say you'd find an answer in Synaptic or that any pre-compiled pclos kernel would have any special configuration needed. Only a custom-compiled kernel would have that.

We don't know the answer to any of your questions because you haven't given us enough information to look for it. I was trying to point you in the right direction for searching.

We can only respond to the information you give us. You said it wouldn't boot, so people wasted their time trying to help you with bootloader problems. Then it turned out it does boot but the GUI hangs and doesn't start. That's a very different problem. The clue that it will reboot from a working OS but Linux won't get to a desktop from cold tells us it's a hardware configuration or firmware problem which the other OS sorts out but Linux kernels do not. Which hardware item might be revealed when we know where it stops. The video card/chip is a possibility, but it could be something else.

If you can get it into runlevel 3 you will at least have 6 terminals to play with. If lynx is installed you can even visit this forum in one of those, though you might prefer to use another machine for that. Then do the things suggested above to investigate further.

It's not insoluble, I'm sure. You just need to find out what's wrong.