Re: Looking for THE laptop expert (SOLVED!)

[bicol_willem]

Solution given here: http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,109738.0.html  by loudog

I got something on hands here I have never seen before.
First this laptop was a hell to get any Linux installed on (It simply won't boot ANY Linux LiveCD I threw at it).
That is to say eventually it DID boot (luck or mistery?) once after a zillion trials and I was able to install and run Linux successfully.
But that is not the whole story.
Even after a HDD install it won't boot Linux......
I discovered that it WILL boot if I fire up first Windows (I installed that at a moment in time as I wanted to check for hardware error preventing Linux to boot) and then simply restart the laptop. It THEN boots up Linux straight on!
So, a "cold" boot will NOT boot Linux (I got as far as the login screen and then it freezes) while a restart from Windows will boot Linux with no problems.
It moreover runs from there just fine.. Nothing points to any problem from then.
Anyone can explain (or solve) this?

The specs of the laptop are:
AMD Dual core processor E450
AMD Radeon HD6320
2 Gb DDR3
500 Gb HDD

lspci shows;
marlene@Laptop-eMD443:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 14h Processor Root Complex
00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Wrestler [Radeon HD 6320]
00:11.0 SATA controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 SATA Controller [AHCI mode]
00:12.0 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI0 Controller
00:12.2 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller
00:13.0 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI0 Controller
00:13.2 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller
00:14.0 SMBus: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 SMBus Controller (rev 42)
00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40)
00:14.3 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 LPC host controller (rev 40)
00:14.4 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 PCI to PCI Bridge (rev 40)
00:14.5 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI2 Controller
00:15.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB700/SB800/SB900 PCI to PCI bridge (PCIE port 0)
00:15.1 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB700/SB800/SB900 PCI to PCI bridge (PCIE port 1)
00:16.0 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI0 Controller
00:16.2 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 0 (rev 43)
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 1
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 2
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 3
00:18.4 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 4
00:18.5 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 6
00:18.6 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 5
00:18.7 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] Family 12h/14h Processor Function 7
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet (rev c1)
06:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4313 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Controller (rev 01)
marlene@Laptop-eMD443:~$

[Crow]

Is grub installed? what does it says menu.lst?

[bicol_willem]

Is grub installed? what does it says menu.lst?

Yes grub is installed. All the usual boot options shows at start up. I am not at that laptop right now, will look at menu list (if I can find it). I wasn't that lucky to get PCLinuxOS running on it (I keep trying though)since installers simply won't boot but also once I was able to boot it and install. Since boot remained a problem, I thought maybe I deal with a borked install or installer and wiped it out for a new try. So far no luck. I got now Windows7 installed (runs like a deer on it) and (by luck?) Edxxuntu with Unity, a total other animal where I don't know my way so well in. The last also runs just fine once up and running. It is just booting (as explained) that spoils the fun!
Back to my daily trials to Install PCLinuxOS again. (If it happened once, why not twice?)

[horusfalcon]

Does this laptop use UEFI for setup?  If so, maybe there's some bizarre configuration setting that's preventing Linux from booting?

Maybe?

Later On,
D

[bicol_willem]

Does this laptop use UEFI for setup?  If so, maybe there's some bizarre configuration setting that's preventing Linux from booting?

Maybe?

Later On,
D

I really wouldn't know about UEFI (how to check on this?)

But luck smiles at me this morning. After a few trials I was able to boot a PCLinuxOS KDE remaster running running kernel 3.2.18-pclos1.bfs and from there install the OS (as third OS on this laptop). Now I am on some more familiar grounds! Reboot did work but that is nothing new. It runs all fine (although tapping the touchpad doesn't work in PCLinuxOS but I remember the Textar fix on this). I have to wait and see if any Linux will "cold boot". First I am running now the updates.

Then Grub menulist:
If I open the menulist (/boot/grubmenulist) file with Kwrite (as I use to do) I find a EMPTY file!
During reboot however all options are there at Grub to choose from.......

Going to try to boot the other OS's and then shut it down to see if a cold boot in Linux will work now.

Yes, this thing flabbergast me! 

[bicol_willem]

I just remembered the option Redo MBR and that shows the following menulist. I just copy and past it here.

timeout 10
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
gfxmenu (hd0,7)/boot/gfxmenu
default 0

title linux
kernel (hd0,7)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=UUID=dc2148e4-b7fa-4001-bae4-33455abd9812  quiet vmalloc=256M acpi=on resume=UUID=9fdc8899-0952-466d-b620-e800f29845fb splash=silent vga=788
initrd (hd0,7)/boot/initrd.img

title linux-nonfb
kernel (hd0,7)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux-nonfb root=UUID=dc2148e4-b7fa-4001-bae4-33455abd9812  quiet vmalloc=256M acpi=on resume=UUID=9fdc8899-0952-466d-b620-e800f29845fb
initrd (hd0,7)/boot/initrd.img

title failsafe
kernel (hd0,7)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=failsafe root=UUID=dc2148e4-b7fa-4001-bae4-33455abd9812  quiet failsafe vmalloc=256M acpi=on
initrd (hd0,7)/boot/initrd.img

title windows
root (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the PCLINUXOS standard grub entries
title      Other operating systems:


# This entry automatically added by the PCLinuxOS redo-mbr for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sda6.
title      another distro 12.04 LTS (12.04) (on /dev/sda6)
root      (hd0,5)
kernel      /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-23-generic-pae root=/dev/sda6
initrd      /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-23-generic-pae
savedefault
boot


EDIT
Have meanwhile adjusted trough Redo MBR the boot order.

timeout 10
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
gfxmenu (hd0,7)/boot/gfxmenu
default 0

title Boot PCLinuxOS
kernel (hd0,7)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=UUID=dc2148e4-b7fa-4001-bae4-33455abd9812  quiet vmalloc=256M acpi=on resume=UUID=9fdc8899-0952-466d-b620-e800f29845fb splash=silent vga=788
initrd (hd0,7)/boot/initrd.img

title linux-nonfb
kernel (hd0,7)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux-nonfb root=UUID=dc2148e4-b7fa-4001-bae4-33455abd9812  quiet vmalloc=256M acpi=on resume=UUID=9fdc8899-0952-466d-b620-e800f29845fb
initrd (hd0,7)/boot/initrd.img

title PCLinuxOS failsafe
kernel (hd0,7)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=failsafe root=UUID=dc2148e4-b7fa-4001-bae4-33455abd9812  quiet failsafe vmalloc=256M acpi=on
initrd (hd0,7)/boot/initrd.img

title      Boot Edubuntu 12.04 LTS (12.04) (on /dev/sda6)
root      (hd0,5)
kernel      /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-23-generic-pae root=/dev/sda6
initrd      /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-23-generic-pae
savedefault
boot

title Boot Windows 7 64 bit
root (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1

All works fine so far (the pain is in a cold boot which I will test later after a prolonged shutdown).
Still the /boot/grub/menulist is empty.
Obviously grub lives on a other location the PCLinuxOS > /boot/grub 

[bicol_willem]

OK, once more confirmed. A cold boot will NOT boot any Linux. Windows boots well. A reboot from Windows leads to booting any Linux.
Is there a better pill then asperine against headache? 

[Just17]

The  /boot/grub/menu.lst   file is not empty.

You need root privileges to view or edit its contents.

[bicol_willem]

The  /boot/grub/menu.lst   file is not empty.

You need root privileges to view or edit its contents.

CURRECT! 

[kjpetrie]

This will be a BIOS/UEFI setting (or possibly firmware loading issue). What is happening is BIOS/UEFI is configuring (or not initialising) something so the OS cannot access it. Windows detects the misconfiguration and corrects it so it can boot, and then leaves it in that state.

You could perhaps check the Windows boot log (don't ask me where that is - I don't know, but I seem to remember it records one) to see what it did. (Look for the usual words - 'Error', 'configure', 'firmware', etc.)

Then you need to check the BIOS settings to see whether you can set the thing up that way to start with.

If not, post the results here and someone might know.

How far does the boot get before it stops?

[bicol_willem]

This will be a BIOS/UEFI setting (or possibly firmware loading issue). What is happening is BIOS/UEFI is configuring (or not initialising) something so the OS cannot access it. Windows detects the misconfiguration and corrects it so it can boot, and then leaves it in that state.

You could perhaps check the Windows boot log (don't ask me where that is - I don't know, but I seem to remember it records one) to see what it did. (Look for the usual words - 'Error', 'configure', 'firmware', etc.)

Then you need to check the BIOS settings to see whether you can set the thing up that way to start with.

If not, post the results here and someone might know.

How far does the boot get before it stops?

That is the strange thing..... It actually starts booting and goes as far as the login screen. There all the fun stops. It simply hangs and only switching of the power get's us out.

[horusfalcon]

An introduction to UEFI can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface

And the Official UEFI Home Page is here:

http://www.uefi.org/home/

There have been discussions in the past on this forum relating to how UEFI might inhibit a Linux system from booting.  A quick search of the fora turns up 2 pages of search hits on the string UEFI.

I'm not sure how to tell if UEFI is implemented on your laptop, as none of my gear uses it.  There should be a way to turn off the Secure Boot feature of UEFI, which is probably the culprit if, in fact, UEFI is implemented here.

A quote from the Wikipedia article:

Red Hat developer Matthew Garrett in his article "UEFI secure booting" raised a concern that UEFI "secure boot" feature may impact Linux (machines with the Windows 8 logo with secure boot enabled that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will not boot a generic copy of Linux).[50][51] In response, Microsoft stated that customers may be able to disable the secure boot feature in the UEFI interface.[2][52] Concern remained that some OEMs might omit that capability in their computers. Later it was reported that Microsoft apparently prohibited implementation of disabling of Secure Boot on ARM systems.[53][54]

Joshua Gay of the Free Software Foundation (FSF) raised concerns on "secure boot" implementation to UEFI and FSF declared a public statement open for signing which states:

    We, the undersigned, urge all computer makers implementing UEFI's so-called "Secure Boot" to do it in a way that allows free software operating systems to be installed. To respect user freedom and truly protect user security, manufacturers must either allow computer owners to disable the boot restrictions, or provide a sure-fire way for them to install and run a free software operating system of their choice. We commit that we will neither purchase nor recommend computers that strip users of this critical freedom, and we will actively urge people in our communities to avoid such jailed systems.[55][56]

In December 2011, Microsoft released a document about hardware certification of OEM products, Windows Hardware Certification Requirements[57] which confirms that they intend to ban the possibility of installing alternative operating systems on ARM-based devices running Windows 8. The document insists that they will require x86 and x86-64 devices to have the Secure UEFI enabled. They allow for the possibility that a custom secure boot mode could be enabled providing to the user the ability to add signatures. However, they intend that going to custom secure boot mode or disabling secure boot mode on ARM devices will not be compatible with running Windows.[53]

So, there you have it.  I have resolved to not allow UEFI hardware in my house until I better understand it and know that I can make it work with Linux.  It is, perhaps, time that the Open Source communities band together to either come up with an alternative to UEFI (which would seem an almost insurmountable problem at present) or some kind of open hardware standard.

Them's the breaks, folks.  I can smell another anti-trust lawsuit against Microsoft in the offing.

Later On,
D

[Just17]

There have been discussions in the past on this forum relating to how UEFI might inhibit a Linux system from booting.

There is nothing in UEFI that prevents Linux from booting, that I am aware of.
I did an install the other day on a PC with UEFI.

The problem will arise when UEFI includes Secure Boot ......

The only real difference I noticed was the user interface .....  it is much more graphical and allows the mouse to be used.

All other settings I came across would be considered normal for a BIOS.

[luikki]

could your problems simply be caused by grub2?

[bicol_willem]

could your problems simply be caused by grub2?

Well, first of all I searched the BIOS and I can not find anything there pointing to any UEFI or related settings.

As for grub2 ..... You see, the first Linux I was able to install was xxuntu 12.04 and if I am correct (not sure right now) that uses grub2. But then, today, I was able to install PCLinuxOS and that one has over written the MBR as far as can follow all this.
I got to assume that my grub is now NOT grub2.
Right now this laptop is triple boot (Windows, xxuntu and PCLinuxOS). All OS's run just fine after a successful boot.
Such successful boot into Linux still depends on Windows! If I remove the same I can't boot my Linux. How cruel that is!