Texlive needed/dependancies?

[Big.J]

Hi All, first the history. Brand new install of PCLOS Xfce 2012.02, root & user account work fine. Set the time right and then uninstalled the Xfce weather plug-in to avoid the updating quirk found on a test install and reported on the forums. Following a reboot, the system was brought upto date following the recommended instructions, noting the substantial download size and items that I would not need. To slim the install down, I removed the ati and nvidea driver packages, all ok. Then I noted that Texlive seemed to be responsible for a lot of the extra space used. Searched for info about it, I have no need for tex produced documents (intend to use LO) so removed that too. This replaced Texlive with jadetex and xmitex which gave a net saving of approx 700MB. However, jadetex & xmitex were on the original iso and were replaced by Texlive on that first update! Searched for info, understand why it replaces jadetex but 700MB is a lot for something I may never use.

Another forum search suggests that this may be related to the following query:

http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,105864.0.html

What I would like to know is:

1. Are Texlive/jadetex/xmitex only used for tex document production or is it needed for additional things?
2. Can I remove jadetex/xmitex to avoid the Texlive update & its extra 700MB?
3. Does any package expert/guru want me to try anything out to help with this query, possibly in connection with the one on the LXDE forum?

Hope the above is clear and concise, please note it is my first problem post! Any help/guidance is much appreciated, thanks.

[wanderer5210]

Hi All, first the history. Brand new install of PCLOS Xfce 2012.02, root & user account work fine. Set the time right and then uninstalled the Xfce weather plug-in to avoid the updating quirk found on a test install and reported on the forums. Following a reboot, the system was brought upto date following the recommended instructions, noting the substantial download size and items that I would not need. To slim the install down, I removed the ati and nvidea driver packages, all ok. Then I noted that Texlive seemed to be responsible for a lot of the extra space used. Searched for info about it, I have no need for tex produced documents (intend to use LO) so removed that too. This replaced Texlive with jadetex and xmitex which gave a net saving of approx 700MB. However, jadetex & xmitex were on the original iso and were replaced by Texlive on that first update! Searched for info, understand why it replaces jadetex but 700MB is a lot for something I may never use.

Another forum search suggests that this may be related to the following query:

http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,105864.0.html

What I would like to know is:

1. Are Texlive/jadetex/xmitex only used for tex document production or is it needed for additional things?
2. Can I remove jadetex/xmitex to avoid the Texlive update & its extra 700MB?
3. Does any package expert/guru want me to try anything out to help with this query, possibly in connection with the one on the LXDE forum?

Hope the above is clear and concise, please note it is my first problem post! Any help/guidance is much appreciated, thanks.

Ditto for me?

[mmutoo]

Actually that question is bothering me for a long time now! As you mentioned, the "tex" related packages are considered (sort of) necessary for xfce. But they are not. Try to remove jadetex and you will see that the xfce panel and a lot of other xfce related packages are going to be removed. I hope somebody who maintains the XFCE checks this.

[GermanTux]

I am not familiar with exactly why the texlive package was included, but I find it hard to believe that Sproggy (who no longer maintains the packages) would have included it if it was not needed for some reason.  I remember downloading the packages with a giant question mark over my head, and I did some reading as to what is inside them.  Doesn't make sense to me either, but I am not a developer.   

[mag]

Check this, it may help shed a bit of light, but sproggy is elsewhere now (and presumably working on a fix in his new Phinx distro):
http://phinxdesktop.slyip.net/phinxdesktop/?page_id=47&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=88.0#postid-527

[Big.J]

Well as I have to move on, I updated and of course texlive and texlive-texmf (the 717MB bit) came back in. I have searched further and it seems that Xfce does not need it. It may be an old linking to jadetex, tex etc for a minor reason previously which was not a problem when those packs were small but if they are automatically mapped to texlive then you get the extra 700MB! So my question is answered really as No, No and lastly No as nobody has asked me to be a lab rat!

Thanks for the link to the Phinx fix which confirms it, obviously his version of Xfce no longer has the dependency link as removing texlive would recreate the circle.

As anything further is really beyond my newbie skills! which forum do I post this to to advise of the dependency bug; leave it here, the lxde one (seems related to that post I referenced) or software?  If no guru/expert gets back to me I will post the problem where it seems best.

[longtom]

Hi Big J,

I reckon broken packages would be ok.  That should get the attention of those in the know.

Since there is nobody looking after Phoenix right now and it is not considered "official" any more I hope the present team finds the time to fix this.

[gseaman]

texlive replaces the obsolete tetex packages. But, unfortunately, texlive is packaged with almost everything in one rpm. The problem is that for a big package like this, re-writing the spec file and testing each change can get to be very complicated and time-consuming. It is probably too big for me to attempt, or I would gladly help.

Galen

[mmutoo]

I think the main question is still in place: Is any package (even the tiniest one) of the TEX typesetting family really needed at all in the first place?

[gseaman]

Probably not for xfce, but I've come across many packages that require tex for formatting documentation. I just checked in synaptic and the really big package is texlive-mf. texlive is only 22.4 megabytes download (56 megabytes installed). texlive-mf is a 390 mb download and 710 mb installed! I can't imagine what's in that package that needs 710 mb.

Galen

[mmutoo]

Well, I am not sure if I am familiar with TEX structure. But after 2 years of using it, I can say that this is a normal size for it. Actually a complete texlive system is about 2.5 GB (I have it now on my laptop). Anyways, I still don't think that tex is needed for an out of the box xfce installation. In fact, I have installed countless distros these years (before settling on what I have now) and none of them needed tex from the beginning. So, I am pretty sure that this is a problem that can be corrected by the maintainer.

[djohnston]

Well, I am not sure if I am familiar with TEX structure. But after 2 years of using it, I can say that this is a normal size for it. Actually a complete texlive system is about 2.5 GB (I have it now on my laptop). Anyways, I still don't think that tex is needed for an out of the box xfce installation. In fact, I have installed countless distros these years (before settling on what I have now) and none of them needed tex from the beginning. So, I am pretty sure that this is a problem that can be corrected by the maintainer.

+1.  The broken dependencies have been solved with Kori's recompiled Phinx packages for XFCE.

[mmutoo]

For those who want to use PCLOS XFCE, of course there is Kori's recompiled Phinx. But what about those who use KDE or LXDE (like me )? Is it possible to replace the xfce repos (and only xfce ones) in the LXDE version with those of Kori?

[Neal ManBear]

For those who want to use PCLOS XFCE, of course there is Kori's recompiled Phinx. But what about those who use KDE or LXDE (like me )? Is it possible to replace the xfce repos (and only xfce ones) in the LXDE version with those of Kori?

     
No. That could lead to a broken install.     
Just have some patience, please.     

[mmutoo]

Thanks Neal. We are eagerly waiting