Help with adding Dual Boot Win7 on a HD now running PCL (CLOSED)

[Cressida]

Update:  I never could get PCLOS to run from a clean install at the sda2 location of the HD despite several attempts.  After finally installing it in the sda1 partition it booted up normally so for now I can living with that.



I have a desktop running 100% PCL 2012 KDE for over a year but now need to be able to boot into a Windows 7 occasionally.  

I do not want to use Virtual Box but wish to install the Win7 in a separate partition on my existing hard drive.   Note that when I set up my HD and installed PCL I kept some parts of my HD as unallocated space
in case I wanted to add this dual booting later.   Here is how my HD is allocated at this time with all partitons Ext4 for PCL :

fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 400.1 GB, 400088457216 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1        78848000   120831999    20992000   83  Linux
/dev/sda2       120832000   781422591   330295296    5  Extended
/dev/sda5       120834048   121970687      568320   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6       185458688   308338687    61440000   83  Linux
/dev/sda7       381657088   549593087    83968000   83  Linux


I have an empty (unallocated space) of 37 GB at the first part of the HD and another empty ~110 GB at the end of this HD - these, of course do not show up above.   I will use Gparted to format one of these empty partitions and plan to use NTSF file system.  (I don't see any need for Win7 to be able to share files and for those few times I may need to I plan to just copy the file on a USB stick and transfer it that way.)

I want to install Win7 ultimate (32bit) in either of these locations and have the option of booting into it from the existing PCL Grub menu.    90+% of my boots will be into PCL.  

I originally figured I'd install into the first 37GB since it would be a primary partition (I think) but am a bit concerned that would change all of my existing PCL drive letters as well as being a bit small.  However, since I have all of this space at the end of the HD can I just install there instead - even though it is part of the sda2 extended partition?   I don't think Win7 will even know but it seems like I read there may be issues if Windows doesn't install at the beginning of the HD.

After I install Win7 how do I keep it from screwing with my MBR as I want to be sure I can get the PCL GRUB to continue loading up to give me a boot option ?

[Just17]

You cannot prevent Windows from screwing up your Grub MBR install as far as I am aware .......  just let it do it and then use redo-mbr  after Windows is working, to get back to booting with Grub into Win or PCLOS.

I would not format the free space beforehand, but point the Win installer to the free space and allow it to do the creation and formatting of the partition/s it needs.

I think Win 7 uses two partitions ......  the first for its boot loader and the second for the OS .....  so it is possible to put the first at the beginning of the disk and the second in another location.
I don't see any advantage of that to you.

Check out threads about redoing the MBR on this forum before you start, so that you are prepared for what will be required after Win is installed.

[Old-Polack]

Cressida:

If you have a second hard drive you can use, it's always better to install Windows on its own drive, where it can't mess with your grub installation, or screw up the partitioning scheme on your present drive.

[pags]

Another option (depending on how much data you have and/or your current state of backups and/or your access to a sufficient large medium - CD/DVD/USB drive ... sorry about that ramble), is to create a remaster of your system.

Important!
BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP!

Now, to continue:
First, install draklive-install.  Then, use mylivecd to create a remaster image (details available on this forum).

Second, once the remaster is on a bootable medium (CD or DVD or USB drive, depending on size and availability), you can test it to make sure it works, and everything is on it, by booting from it, into a live environment which is an exact copy of your existing system!

Next, once confirmed it is working, you could let Windows install, wiping the drive and creating it's two partitions.  During the install, limit Windows' partition size to what you want allocated to Windows.

Last, after Windows is installed and confirmed working, use you remaster to re-install your PCLOS.  Adjust (or, recreate) the balancing of your partitioning as you see fit.

***

This is a very succinct outline of a process.  If you need further clarification, these topics have all been discussed here in the past.  If you have trouble finding (or, understanding) those posts, don't be afraid to ask.

This is not the only, nor the best (what is "best", really?  It's very subjective), way to approach.  It is just another option.

Hope that helps, some.

[Cressida]

I thought putting the Win 7 on separate HD might indeed be a safe idea so I added an old 40gb HD to my desktop and proceeded to do a clean install of the Win 7 to it.  

Win 7 loaded on the other HD but somehow seems to have gotten over to my PCL HD and added a very small partition to it that was not there before.  Great.       The main point of using the other HD was to prevent this, so I deleted that patition/file and that left a small unallocated space besides my swap so I then tried to just resize my swap to take up that space using Gparted.  That didn't work though.

Now I cannot boot into my PCL HD at all.  I just get a black screen so I think the Grub is not loading.   Here is what my PCL HD shows now:


fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 400.1 GB, 400088457216 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 48641 cylinders, total 781422768 sectors
Disk identifier: 0x0009289d

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda2        78848000   120831999    20992000   83  Linux
/dev/sda3       120832000   781422591   330295296    5  Extended
/dev/sda5      185458688   308338687    61440000   83  Linux
/dev/sda6      381657088   549593087    83968000   83  Linux

Here is what my disk showed before I tried all of this.  Note the drive letters don't match and the swap is gone. Sda1 is where PCLOS is located:  

Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1       78848000   120831999    20992000   83  Linux
/dev/sda2       120832000   781422591   330295296    5  Extended
/dev/sda5       120834048   121970687      568320   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6       185458688   308338687    61440000   83  Linux
/dev/sda7       381657088   549593087    83968000   83  Linux

(Note that the last two lines above are for my HD partition of /home (sda6) and /data (sada7).  Those partitions haven't changed except for the drive #'s

I have plenty of unallocated room at the beginning of the extended partition so I don't understand why Gparted would not let me add the small Swap back at that same location but it wouldn't.   (I figure I can try and add swap later if needed since I don't think my system ever used it)

But if anyone can see a way to get the system to boot up via the Grub menu I would welcome anything.  It has been a long day of working on this with absolutely nothing to show for it.  I am running now from PCL - CD.

I did try and run Re-do MBR from the PCL CD but it didn't help.  Here is what it shows for my boot record.  It looks to me like the HD #'s are incorrect (hd0,0) and perhaps those can be edited ? :

timeout 7
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
gfxmenu /boot/gfxmenu
default 4

title linux-nonfb
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux-nonfb root=UUID=66c19e56-47fd-4c7b-b06e-96b3cd9a74fd
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd.img

title failsafe
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=failsafe root=UUID=66c19e56-47fd-4c7b-b06e-96b3cd9a74fd failsafe
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd.img

title 2.6.33.7-pclos6.a64
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.33.7-pclos6.a64 BOOT_IMAGE=2.6.33.7-pclos6.a64 root=UUID=66c19e56-47fd-4c7b-b06e-96b3cd9a74fd  vga=788
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd-2.6.33.7-pclos6.a64.img

title 2.6.38.8-pclos1.a64
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.38.8-pclos1.a64 BOOT_IMAGE=2.6.38.8-pclos1.a64 root=UUID=66c19e56-47fd-4c7b-b06e-96b3cd9a74fd  vga=788
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd-2.6.38.8-pclos1.a64.img

title linux
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=UUID=66c19e56-47fd-4c7b-b06e-96b3cd9a74fd  vga=788
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd.img

[dvhenry]

Great.   Huh    The main point of using the other HD was to prevent this, so I deleted that patition/file and that left a small unallocated space besides my swap so I then tried to just resize my swap to take up that space using Gparted.  That didn't work though.

But why didn't you come back with fdisk-l output after the troublesome windows install and before making further changes? It should have shown /dev/sda and /dev/sdb, there are no windows partitions on sda. Deleting sda5 changes sda6 and sda7 to sda5 and sda6, but what did you do to change sda1 and sda2 to sda2 and sda3 ?

(edit) Did you install windows in the free space before sda1 and then delete it?
Your system won't boot because you don't have a working boot loader.
Your data and PCLOS files should be untouched.
Install windows, create a new swap at its original position, reinstall the Linux boot loader, and edit fstab.
Also, although leaving free space on the disk for new partitions can make things easier, it is usually only if you leave it at the end of the disk, not the start and the end (as you have done in this case) if you must have free space at the start of the disk I would, at the time of first creating the partitions, create an unformatted partition for the free space. .  

[dvhenry]

I originally figured I'd install into the first 37GB since it would be a primary partition (I think) but am a bit concerned that would change all of my existing PCL drive letters

As it has!

However, since I have all of this space at the end of the HD can I just install there instead - even though it is part of the sda2 extended partition?  

Yes, win7 can be installed on logical partition, but I believe it needs a small amount of space at the start of the disk, or perhaps on a primary.
 You can also create a primary after the extended, (if you have enough primaries including the extended) it may look ugly on fdisk-l, but it makes no difference to the operation or reliability of the system.

After I install Win7 how do I keep it from screwing with my MBR as I want to be sure I can get the PCL GRUB to continue loading up to give me a boot option ?

You can't, windows does this for fun, that is why Linux has made it so simple to reinstall the boot loader. (or if GRUB is installed correctly, just move the boot flag.)

[djohnston]

Did you?

Important!
BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP!

I thought putting the Win 7 on separate HD might indeed be a safe idea so I added an old 40gb HD to my desktop and proceeded to do a clean install of the Win 7 to it.  

Win 7 loaded on the other HD but somehow seems to have gotten over to my PCL HD and added a very small partition to it that was not there before.

Windows expects to be on the first drive, wnich is sda. When you installed Windows to sdb, (the second drive), it overwrote the MBR on sda, as well as adding a partition there. Windows does not play nice with other operating systems.

You can get both to co-exist the way they are now, but it involves using a GRUB trick to make Windows think that sdb is actually sda. Your fdisk list doesn't show sdb. And your GRUB menu doesn't have a Windows boot option yet.

Can you boot Windows if it's the only drive in the PC? Can you access your data files on the Linux drive if you boot from a live CD? You will probably have to reinstall Linux. You may have to reinstall Windows. There's not enough info to go on from your posts.

[dvhenry]

Win 7 loaded on the other HD but somehow seems to have gotten over to my PCL HD and added a very small partition to it that was not there before.

Your fdisk-l output does not agree! (Unless you made partition changes after the install attempt and before you ran fdisk-l.)
If your fdisk outputs, and the conditions you describe as having taken them under are correct, then nothing was written to the partitions you already had on sda, and the advice I gave earlier I believe to be sound.

note: If something was written to sda it would have been in the free space before the start of sda1, and deleted before the fdisk output was taken, but this would not affect the partitions and data already on the disk.

You might want to disconnect your Linux disk, connect the disk you want to use for window, install windows, reconnect the linux disk, reinstate swap in its original position, reinstall the Linux boot loader, then edit fstab, I suggest you take it one step at a time and allow us to guide you as you go.

[dvhenry]

I have plenty of unallocated room at the beginning of the extended partition so I don't understand why Gparted would not let me add the small Swap back at that same location but it wouldn't.   (I figure I can try and add swap later if needed since I don't think my system ever used it)

You don't tell us the error message, however this can be fixed with gparted or in this case probably easier with fdisk (the fdisk fix would best described by Old-Polac) and swap could of course be placed on any other unused part of the disk. But can you give us the error message?

[Cressida]

You guys are good - - - and I am embarrassed (and ticked) for letting Windows jump onto my PCL HD.  

Here is what happened just in case someone else tries this down the road:

I got Windows loaded onto my other HD which is now sdb as show in the latest fdisk -l below.   Windows boots up fine now on that HD.  However on the first install, it would not connect to the internet which I later figured out was that it needed a different driver for my MB.  But before I figured that out, I decided to do the Windows installation again.  On the reinstall, I directed it to the correct HD (sdb) again but didn't watch it install the ENTIRE time.  When Windows restarted automatically, and without me seeing this momentarily during the installation sequence,  it elected to format and install on the unallocated first part of my PCL disk (sda) without any warning even though I had directed it to the other HD !        The lesson learned is to unplug other HD's when installing Windows so it cannot go anywhere else...

Indeed I found Windows was installed on both HD's.    So deleted it off of my PCL HD (using Gparted) and this space shows now to be unallocated again.  

(As suggested, I was able to add my swap space back in the same location on the HD.  However it picked up a different drive letter of sda7 and it was sda5)

Again, here is what the HD showed before I tried all of this.  Sda1 is where PCLOS is located, sda6 is /home and sda7 is /data.

Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  Systemsda6       185458688
/dev/sda1       78848000   120831999    20992000   83  Linux
/dev/sda2       120832000   781422591   330295296    5  Extended
/dev/sda5       120834048   121970687      568320   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6       185458688   308338687    61440000   83  Linux
/dev/sda7       381657088   549593087    83968000   83  Linux


Here is what it is now :

[root@localhost ~]# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 400.1 GB, 400088457216 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 48641 cylinders, total 781422768 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0009289d

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda2        78848000   120831999    20992000   83  Linux
/dev/sda3       120832000   781422591   330295296    5  Extended
/dev/sda5       185458688   308338687    61440000   83  Linux
/dev/sda6       381657088   549593087    83968000   83  Linux
/dev/sda7       120834048  121972735      569344   82  Linux swap / Solaris

Partition table entries are not in disk order

(Here is the new HD with Windows installed and working:)

Disk /dev/sdb: 40.0 GB, 40000000000 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 4863 cylinders, total 78125000 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xf52bcf0e

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1   *        2048      206847      102400    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdb2          206848    78120959    38957056    7  HPFS/NTFS


If anyone wants to walk me through deleting windows off of sda1 (even though it is unallocated?)  and changing my swap back to sda5 and /home back to sda6 and /data back to sda7, I'd like to see if my PCL might work again.   (I don't know if the grub got wiped out by Windows and if it can be recreated.  I am not sure if recreating the MBR also recreates grub ?)

If I am about too far gone for now I'll just try a fresh install in a few days.  

[Old-Polack]

Cressida:

Start from the liveCD, log in as root, open a terminal. Enter the following;

[root@localhost ~]# fdisk /dev/sda

Command (m for help): m
Command action
   a   toggle a bootable flag
   b   edit bsd disklabel
   c   toggle the dos compatibility flag
   d   delete a partition
   l   list known partition types
   m   print this menu
   n   add a new partition
   o   create a new empty DOS partition table
   p   print the partition table
   q   quit without saving changes
   s   create a new empty Sun disklabel
   t   change a partition's system id
   u   change display/entry units
   v   verify the partition table
   w   write table to disk and exit
   x   extra functionality (experts only)

Command (m for help): x

Expert command (m for help): m
Command action
   b   move beginning of data in a partition
   c   change number of cylinders
   d   print the raw data in the partition table
   e   list extended partitions
   f   fix partition order
   g   create an IRIX (SGI) partition table
   h   change number of heads
   i   change the disk identifier
   m   print this menu
   p   print the partition table
   q   quit without saving changes
   r   return to main menu
   s   change number of sectors/track
   v   verify the partition table
   w   write table to disk and exit

Expert command (m for help): f


Expert command (m for help):  r

Command (m for help): p

You should at this time see the partitions back in proper order. If you do, enter the w command to write the changes to disk and exit fdisk.

Command (m for help): w

[root@localhost ~]#

Post your results.

[dvhenry]

Indeed I found Windows was installed on both HD's.    So deleted it off of my PCL HD (using Gparted) and this space shows now to be unallocated again.  However running Dolphin I can see all of the Windows files are still there on the PCL sda HD.

But how? There is no NTFS or even FAT partition on sda to read windows install files from (windows cannot install to linux partitions), was this check done perhaps before deleting the new sda1?

So at this point if someone thinks it is work trying to delete Windows from sda1 and changing the drive letters back to what they should be I will try that - otherwise it might be about as easy to do just do a clean install of PCL but my "/" hasn't changed so if I can get the sda1 part of my HD wiped clean maybe the drive letters will change and I'll be getting close to booting again?  

(As suggested, I was able to add my swap space back in the same location on the HD.  However it picked up a different drive letter of sda7 and it was sda5)

Actually, after giving it more thought, there is no need to alter the 'drive letters' (from sda2 to sda1 for example), although if it was me I would prefer to keep the partition table looking tidy, and the method offered above by Old-Polack is quick, simple and reliable.

PCLOS uses UUID, so sda1 or sda2 for example, mean nothing to either GRUB or fstab (unless you specify it to do so).

From where you appear to be now, I think the minimum to get the systems working reliably is to just reinstall GRUB.

EDIT: The UUID for the original sda1, sda2, sda6 and sda7 will be the same as before, what was sda5, your swap, probably now needs a new UUID setup, but that is easily detected and remedied.  

[Cressida]

Following Old-Polack's commands the order of sda5, sd6, and sd7 is now changed back or orginal as shown below:   (More about sda2 and sd3 following the fdisk)

fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 400.1 GB, 400088457216 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 48641 cylinders, total 781422768 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0009289d

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda2        78848000   120831999    20992000   83  Linux
/dev/sda3       120832000   781422591   330295296    5  Extended
/dev/sda5       120834048   121972735      569344   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6       185458688   308338687    61440000   83  Linux
/dev/sda7       381657088   549593087    83968000   83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdb: 40.0 GB, 40000000000 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 4863 cylinders, total 78125000 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xf52bcf0e

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1   *        2048      206847      102400    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdb2          206848    78120959    38957056    7  HPFS/NTFS


"But how? There is no NTFS or even FAT partition on sda to read windows install files from (windows cannot install to linux partitions), was this check done perhaps before deleting the new sda1?"
 
I think you are correct.  There is no partition of sda1 anymore so would using the "t" menu command below be the way to change the sda2 back to sda1 - and the sda3 back to sda2 ?  If so those simple changes should put my HD back to like it was before.    I thought I'd best double check before pulling the trigger  ?

Command (m for help): m
Command action
   a   toggle a bootable flag
   b   edit bsd disklabel
   c   toggle the dos compatibility flag
   d   delete a partition
   l   list known partition types
   m   print this menu
   n   add a new partition
   o   create a new empty DOS partition table
   p   print the partition table
   q   quit without saving changes
   s   create a new empty Sun disklabel
   t   change a partition's system id
   u   change display/entry units
   v   verify the partition table
   w   write table to disk and exit
   x   extra functionality (experts only)

Command (m for help): t
Partition number (1-7)

Would I enter 2 (for sda2) and it give me the option to changing it back to one (sda1) ?

Then I may have to ask how to reinstall the GRUB (or redo the MBR?)

Thanks again.

[Old-Polack]

Cressida:

The t command allows you to identify the partition type, not its numerical order. It will want one of these options, as shown with the l command;

 Command (m for help): l

Code: [Select]

0  Empty           24  NEC DOS         81  Minix / old Lin bf  Solaris
 1  FAT12           39  Plan 9          82  Linux swap / So c1  DRDOS/sec (FAT-
 2  XENIX root      3c  PartitionMagic  83  Linux           c4  DRDOS/sec (FAT-
 3  XENIX usr       40  Venix 80286     84  OS/2 hidden C:  c6  DRDOS/sec (FAT-
 4  FAT16 <32M      41  PPC PReP Boot   85  Linux extended  c7  Syrinx
 5  Extended        42  SFS             86  NTFS volume set da  Non-FS data
 6  FAT16           4d  QNX4.x          87  NTFS volume set db  CP/M / CTOS / .
 7  HPFS/NTFS       4e  QNX4.x 2nd part 88  Linux plaintext de  Dell Utility
 8  AIX             4f  QNX4.x 3rd part 8e  Linux LVM       df  BootIt
 9  AIX bootable    50  OnTrack DM      93  Amoeba          e1  DOS access
 a  OS/2 Boot Manag 51  OnTrack DM6 Aux 94  Amoeba BBT      e3  DOS R/O
 b  W95 FAT32       52  CP/M            9f  BSD/OS          e4  SpeedStor
 c  W95 FAT32 (LBA) 53  OnTrack DM6 Aux a0  IBM Thinkpad hi eb  BeOS fs
 e  W95 FAT16 (LBA) 54  OnTrackDM6      a5  FreeBSD         ee  GPT
 f  W95 Ext'd (LBA) 55  EZ-Drive        a6  OpenBSD         ef  EFI (FAT-12/16/
10  OPUS            56  Golden Bow      a7  NeXTSTEP        f0  Linux/PA-RISC b
11  Hidden FAT12    5c  Priam Edisk     a8  Darwin UFS      f1  SpeedStor
12  Compaq diagnost 61  SpeedStor       a9  NetBSD          f4  SpeedStor
14  Hidden FAT16 <3 63  GNU HURD or Sys ab  Darwin boot     f2  DOS secondary
16  Hidden FAT16    64  Novell Netware  af  HFS / HFS+      fb  VMware VMFS
17  Hidden HPFS/NTF 65  Novell Netware  b7  BSDI fs         fc  VMware VMKCORE
18  AST SmartSleep  70  DiskSecure Mult b8  BSDI swap       fd  Linux raid auto
1b  Hidden W95 FAT3 75  PC/IX           bb  Boot Wizard hid fe  LANstep
1c  Hidden W95 FAT3 80  Old Minix       be  Solaris boot    ff  BBT
1e  Hidden W95 FAT1

Were I you, I'd leave things as they are. You could then use the space in front of /dev/sda2 to create a new /dev/sda1 primary partition using the start sector of 2048, and accepting the default end sector, which in that case should be 78847999. If you do anything different, you'll again mess up your partition order when you do decide to use that space currently going to waste. You can format the new partition with whatever filesystem you feel would be most appropriate for you, and use it for an OS installation or as data storage.