[ANSWERED] PCLinuxOS-Lite RAW Edition: two questions I wish to ask, please.

[vc]

Hello!  I downloaded the PCLinuxOS-Light_RAW_XZ.iso about a month ago, and now that I'm at last able to try it I'm finding two things that are troubling me:

1)  Gnome keyring - why is it there, and how may I remove it, please?  When I attempted to remove it in Synaptic it seems to require removal of major parts of the system - including Synaptic.

2)  NetApplet - is listed in the menu, athough it does not seem to start properly nor appear in the Systray at all.  Is there a fix or a workaround for this, please?

Aside from those issues all else is going well; it looks great, does not require a large amount of drive space for installation, and also seems quite fast and responsive!  I have installed both task-lxde and task-enlightenment through Synaptic so far, and both appear to be functioning well.  The entire install was performed to a single ext3 partition on a 4GB SDHC card, yet its performance on a low-end netbook is fully adequate nevertheless!

Thank-you!

[Neal ManBear]

Hello!  I downloaded the PCLinuxOS-Light_RAW_XZ.iso about a month ago, and now that I'm at last able to try it I'm finding two things that are troubling me:

1)  Gnome keyring - why is it there, and how may I remove it, please?  When I attempted to remove it in Synaptic it seems to require removal of major parts of the system - including Synaptic.

     
You should not remove it. It is a dependency of those parts of the system that will be removed, if it is removed.

2)  NetApplet - is listed in the menu, athough it does not seem to start properly nor appear in the Systray at all.  Is there a fix or a workaround for this, please?

     
Try adding it to your autostart directory. As you have LXDE installed, this will be easy ---     
lxdecc (LXDE Control Center) > Personal tab > Autostart Settings     

Aside from those issues all else is going well; it looks great, does not require a large amount of drive space for installation, and also seems quite fast and responsive!  I have installed both task-lxde and task-enlightenment through Synaptic so far, and both appear to be functioning well.  The entire install was performed to a single ext3 partition on a 4GB SDHC card, yet its performance on a low-end netbook is fully adequate nevertheless!

Thank-you!

     

[Neal ManBear]

More info:     
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,100448.0/topicseen.html     

[vc]

Hello!  I downloaded the PCLinuxOS-Light_RAW_XZ.iso about a month ago, and now that I'm at last able to try it I'm finding two things that are troubling me:

1)  Gnome keyring - why is it there, and how may I remove it, please?

   

You should not remove it. It is a dependency of those parts of the system that will be removed, if it is removed.

I'm sorry Neal; I must have misunderstood completely.  I first discovered the RAW edition by reading this thread:

http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,100057.0.html

Wherein Hootigibbon had stated:

".. the ideal solution for anyone wanting a base to build from that does not want to have pre-conceived ideas of what should be or shoudl not be included in a light iso."

Yet the first thing that gives me a problem is gnome-keyring.  Why is it even included, given that stated goal?  I was hoping for the smallest possible PCLinuxOS installation footprint, and instead I end up installing gnome-keyring-manager through Synaptic solely to get rid of the keyring's annoying interference!  Now it seems it cannot be removed, as various things such as Synaptic, the GIMP, VLC, gdm-themes, bleachbit, drakconf, harddrake, pcmanfm, and numerous libraries have to be removed along with it?  This doesn't make sense to me, and I have absolutely no need for any such keyring at all, thank-you.

2)  NetApplet - is listed in the menu, athough it does not seem to start properly nor appear in the Systray at all.  Is there a fix or a workaround for this, please?

   

Try adding it to your autostart directory. As you have LXDE installed, this will be easy ---    
lxdecc (LXDE Control Center) > Personal tab > Autostart Settings    

I have done so Neal, in both LXDE and E17; however, it still fails to function.

More info:    
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,100448.0/topicseen.html    

Yes; that was what I found also, upon performing a search prior to posting these issues here.  I had initially posted my question regarding the NetApplet in there as well, but it did not receive any reply.  As I wished to enquire regarding the gnome-keyring issue also though, I decided to post afresh here instead.

Through that particular thread I located the following files:

/usr/share/applications/net_applet.desktop

/usr/share/autostart/net_applet.desktop

/usr/share/gnome/autostart/net_applet.desktop

I then edited each in turn as root, in order to change the 'StartupNotify=' parameter to true and also checked for the presence of /usr/bin/net_applet in the system; all seems to be in order, yet despite rebooting completely the NetApplet still does not function.

I have also ensured that the system is completely up-to-date; Synaptic does indicate that the NetApplet is part of drakx-net, and that is currently at its latest version (0.87-6pclos2011).  NetApplet is functioning properly in all other versions of PCLinuxOS that I have installed, so I am inclined to think that there may indeed be some kind of a problem with this one?

Thank you.

[Neal ManBear]

I'm sorry Neal; I must have misunderstood completely.  I first discovered the RAW edition by reading this thread:

http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,100057.0.html

Wherein Hootigibbon had stated:

".. the ideal solution for anyone wanting a base to build from that does not want to have pre-conceived ideas of what should be or shoudl not be included in a light iso."

Yet the first thing that gives me a problem is gnome-keyring.  Why is it even included, given that stated goal?  

As I said, it is a dependency of those other programs; i.e. those programs are dependent on it for something necessary to their function.
Google dependency.     

I was hoping for the smallest possible PCLinuxOS installation footprint, and instead I end up installing gnome-keyring-manager through Synaptic solely to get rid of the keyring's annoying interference!  Now it seems it cannot be removed, as various things such as Synaptic, the GIMP, VLC, gdm-themes, bleachbit, drakconf, harddrake, pcmanfm, and numerous libraries have to be removed along with it?  This doesn't make sense to me, and I have absolutely no need for any such keyring at all, thank-you.

     
  Dependencies are a part of every system. When someone codes a program, he/she will use functions provided by another program. Thus the new program is dependent on the other. The more complex the new program, the more dependencies it is likely to have.     

Removing its dependencies will cause a program to loose function. Synaptic is set up to remove interdependent apps.     

I have done so Neal, in both LXDE and E17; however, it still fails to function.

     
Perhaps it is missing some dependency. I do not know.     

More info:    
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,100448.0/topicseen.html    

Yes; that was what I found also, upon performing a search prior to posting these issues here.  I had initially posted my question regarding the NetApplet in there as well, but it did not receive any reply.  As I wished to enquire regarding the gnome-keyring issue also though, I decided to post afresh here instead.

     
Sorry you didn't get the reply you wanted.     

Through that particular thread I located the following files:

/usr/share/applications/net_applet.desktop

/usr/share/autostart/net_applet.desktop

/usr/share/gnome/autostart/net_applet.desktop

I then edited each in turn as root, in order to change the 'StartupNotify=' parameter to true and also checked for the presence of /usr/bin/net_applet in the system; all seems to be in order, yet despite rebooting completely the NetApplet still does not function.

I have also ensured that the system is completely up-to-date; Synaptic does indicate that the NetApplet is part of drakx-net, and that is currently at its latest version (0.87-6pclos2011).  NetApplet is functioning properly in all other versions of PCLinuxOS that I have installed, so I am inclined to think that there may indeed be some kind of a problem with this one?

Thank you.

     
General rule of thumb is one question, one thread. In this one, you have two.     
If I can find any further info on NetApplet, I'll post it.     

[Hootiegibbon]

vc,

Before I answer the two queries I would like to request that when you quote from a thread you quote the entire sentence and not cut-out the context of the statement

PCLinuxOS-Light (RAW Edition) will (hopefully) be the ideal solution for anyone wanting a base to build from that does not want to have pre-conceived ideas of what should be or shoudl not be included in a light iso.

"you cant please 100% of people 100% of the time"

now onto your queries.

Yes Gnome-Keyring is included - its a package that provide security related dependencies for other applications - remove it if you wish, but you will have to find another solution to fix those dependencies.

for RAW to work as intended it needs to maintain compatibility with the main release, its not intended to be

I was hoping for the smallest possible PCLinuxOS installation footprint  

Its purpose is to be the least defined, the most initially ambiguous, for others to use as a base with some of the more difficult aspects taken care of, there is nothing to stop you stripping it further - you just need to work at it, although you run the increasing chance of causing breakage and need to be able to work-around any issues raised.

Net-applet should work when you activate or install a system tray (IceWM-Light has no system tray, its bigger brother does), its an application that requires a system tray to be in place, to auto start it you should use the auto start mechanism for the window manager or DE you are using or you can check the box within net-applets rightclick  menu's, its not something I use myself and again is an application left in due to dependencies for system stability.

I will ask you a question now, why does the package "gnome-keyring" cause you issues, would it be better to call it "package that supplies various security handling libs and .so files" because I think that may be a bit too long for a package name.

Neal,

Thanks for keeping an eye on the RAW side of things - appreciated

Jase
 
 

 

[Neal ManBear]

Jase,     
You are always welcome.      

vc,     
After Jase's explanation, I hope you understand better what the situation is.     

[djohnston]

vc,

In addition to other responses, this is the purpose of gnome-keyring, and why it should not be removed.

GNOME Keyring is a collection of components in GNOME that store secrets, passwords, keys, certificates and make them available to applications.

GNOME Keyring is integrated with the user's login, so that their secret storage can be unlocked when the user logins into their session.

[pclinmike]

Thank you all for your posts, I find it very informative.  You live and learn 

[vc]

Yes; thank-you, gentlemen.  I have installed the RAW edition on two EeePC 701 machines so far, and both installations seem to be functioning well enough.  On my wife's machine the install was performed to /dev/sda1 directly, whereas on mine it is instead installed to /dev/sdb1, which is a 4GB SanDisk Ultra II SDH card.  Both installs are fully upgraded and running E17 on boot, which in turn was installed through 'task-enlightenment' in Synaptic.  This was done because my wife was used to the KDE3 desktop in PCLinuxOS MiniMe 2009, and also because I prefer Enlightenment.  GKrellM is also installed on both, and is set to autostart upon bootup - at which point it indicates that only 60MB of memory is in use.

The most annoying 'bugs' so far are that the NetApplet still does not function, Dolphin crashes occasionally for no discernable reason, and I can't seem to stop the screen from blanking after several minutes.  However, it is what it is - I can't find any way to fix those, so we just put up with them.  In the case of the NetApplet, I have merely set Network Centre to autostart upon bootup instead.  My wife still misses the KDE3 Worldclock applet and also WXCam, but again; they're gone forever now so she'll just have to accept that fact.

Regarding my position on the gnome-keyring problem, gamin/famin, and such:  for myself, I have no need for them whatsoever - all they do for me is sap performance while adding yet more layers of unnecessary complexity that are prone to bugs and failures.  I would much rather do without them, but as I don't have the skill to remove them I suppose I'll just have to shut up as well and simply accept the situation.

Thank-you again, and good day.  I'll mark this topic as [ANSWERED] now.

[Hootiegibbon]

Currently Building up the new IcedLatte Iso

Found the Fix for net applet

Install "perl-gtk2-Notify" from synaptic

Jase

[Neal ManBear]

Currently Building up the new IcedLatte Iso

Found the Fix for net applet

Install "perl-gtk2-Notify" from synaptic

Jase

     
Woohoo!      

[pclinmike]

Well done   Thank you.

I tried for days to get that working.
It took a few seconds to install and now that 'net applet' works  (I'm using 'Fluxbox' Desktop) and I can see my Wifi sig strength.

[malv]

Just wondering...why the bonsai Openbox edition, the iso size is smaller than the raw one... better compression or openbox is lighter??

thx..

[Hootiegibbon]

Just wondering...why the bonsai Openbox edition, the iso size is smaller than the raw one... better compression or openbox is lighter??

thx..

The projects have different goals

And having a small iso-size is not the same as a light system

RAW is a very stripped down MiniMe - with NONE of the underlying OS removed it is just the PCLInuxOS base (as complete as can be) sans QT/KDE/any applications beyond those needed to build from.

Bonsai, removes much more to be smaller, and has a set of chosen applications, the parts it removes can case issues later on, and an increased amount of dependencies it also has a "non-standard" kernel mode activated.

RAW post first boot consumes circa 47megs of RAM (less if you use a lighter WM than IceWM-Light, Openbox is heavier)

I am currently Looking at teh projects I am involved in - RAW, Iced Latte and another (non-minimal) iso and seeing if I can consolidate aspects of all into the one iso.

Any version of PCLinuxOS can be used as a base to build from, just by using synaptic to remove the unneeded applications and adding what you like, this is true of RAW and also of the main KDE release - another thing to consider is that any (and I do mean any) version can be installed on a p2 with as little as 256 megs and the Mini's on a p2 with 128megs, although the applications and services would need to be adjusted.

I am considering writing a "how to install PCLinuxOS on low end machines" how to, as in essence there is no need for RAW, Bonsai, IcedLatte as anyone can tailor any release to how they like. That is the beauty of PCLinuxOS.

Jase