Kernel .38 too heavy for celeron 600

[cstrike77]

Been meaning to post this for a week.

After installing 2011 Sept. I noticed that browsers, and some other programs would freeze, even Epiphany would choke and stop.

First I thought that it was that /home/~ was native Linux, changed that and it was still happening.

Thought it might be size of the swap file as I made a gig swap.

After a few boots and looking at conky, I figured out that after booting there was no activity in swap, read 0.

So I thought what the heck, I'll change kernels, and see what happens. I changed to the oldest bfs kernel we have in the repos, the .24 and all the problems went away.

Kudos to Tex and bacon team, I figured on this old pile of junk it would take a while to do this, it didn't. Only thing I had to do was re setup wireless, so painless, and after making sure everything worked so easy to get rid of the .38 kernel.

Neal, if you want to pin this so it stays on top, I have no problem with it. Those of us running old equipment might wonder why some of these things are happening.

[Neal ManBear]

The older the hardware, the more likely it is that support for it has been dropped from newer kernels.     

[scoundrel]

yep.. noticed that with my Advent ..


will check this out on it ..

[Hootiegibbon]

cstrike77,

I am at a partial disagreement, I use teh latest stock kernel on all my machines from a p2 366mhz (my p2 233mhz machine died during a bios update), a celeron 400 , a p3 700 , a couple of older centrino's,  a dual core centrino  two semprons , and thats just teh laptops.

Once on the machine it runs just fine, certain hardware needs more work or work arounds, bu the kernel itself is not the "heavy" part,
the "stock" services are more likely to be overloading available resources , which is why I only have minimal start up seervices on te -light range of iso's

with lighter machines with less resources , you do have to "cherry pic" your apps, in its last revision the midori devs removed some of its "legacy" code (which made it easier for older hardware) which is why that app probably started to misbehave. xxxterm in the repo atm is buggy with plugins but works ok (I actually use a self compiled version 1.81  which fixes that issue), also Surf is a capable light browser (at a cost to some functions you may like - although new versions of surf with various patches to make it full featured exist - on the suckless.org site)

another area that can eat up resources is window manager / DE, try out a light window like icewm and see if you suffer the same issues ( I use ratpoison atm as a personal choice)

You can also adjust the 'swappiness' factor to make your swap partition more available

Its easy just to blame one part of the set up for issues like you describe, but more often than not its a mix of things happening at the same time (they  call it "progress") that stifles older hardware.  

Jase

[cstrike77]

cstrike77,

I am at a partial disagreement, I use teh latest stock kernel on all my machines from a p2 366mhz (my p2 233mhz machine died during a bios update), a celeron 400 , a p3 700 , a couple of older centrino's,  a dual core centrino  two semprons , and thats just teh laptops.

How do you adjust the swap file, never knew you could do that..

But your not running 128 meg worth of memory on those machines, right? I agree in the fact that we're at least smart enough to realize that linux on these machines is the way to go, actually I did have ME running on this thing before I found PCLOS.

I did install openbox to get LXDE installed, I burnt 3 coasters worth of LXDE mini before thinking about openbox mini and then installing LXDE with it.

I think I've tried all the browsers, I do like epiphany as my "usual" browser. I also have opera installed, and on the crashed drive I had netscape installed also.

Gimp would not start, the only thing that never froze was synaptic, go figure.. I'm just waiting for a power supply for a nice centrino dell I have sitting here, 1.8 Ghz and a gig of memory, it'll make this old celeron look like it's standing still... Hopefully one of my cousins that's been looking for a new laptop for me will just get the power supply for me so I can finally put this old bone to rest.

TKS Jase for the feedback, I appreciate it.

jan

[Hootiegibbon]

How do you adjust the swap file, never knew you could do that..

There is a post within the forums I will try to locate soon (tied up atm) in the meantime have a search for "swapiness" (use the search link in my sig)

But your not running 128 meg worth of memory on those machines, right? I agree in the fact that we're at least smart enough to realize that linux on these machines is the way to go, actually I did have ME running on this thing before I found PCLOS.

Part of my self set requirements for the -Light release is that it has to be functional on a p2 with 128megs (which I regard as a sensible minimum level, I have however been able to get GUI in 96 megs and cli in as little as 48, when I test these they have to be able to contact the net and be able to use email and irc, you have to be choosey apps wise but is possible

I did install openbox to get LXDE installed, I burnt 3 coasters worth of LXDE mini before thinking about openbox mini and then installing LXDE with it.

give one of my spins a try see what you think, the latest incarnation is RAW which is designed to be a PCLinuxOS system from scratch builder

I think I've tried all the browsers, I do like epiphany as my "usual" browser. I also have opera installed, and on the crashed drive I had netscape installed also.

give xxxterm a try we have ver 1.81 in the repo now - its by far teh best (gtk-webkit) based light browsers out there and is lighter than epiphany opera is a hog (along with teh other big two) the only webkit browsers that are lighter (and in the repo) are jumanji and surf.

Gimp would not start, the only thing that never froze was synaptic, go figure.. I'm just waiting for a power supply for a nice centrino dell I have sitting here, 1.8 Ghz and a gig of memory, it'll make this old celeron look like it's standing still... Hopefully one of my cousins that's been looking for a new laptop for me will just get the power supply for me so I can finally put this old bone to rest.

Gimp will suck the life from a celeron 600 like a vampire on promnight

The biggest factor is the desktop you use - even LXDE will have an impact on usage the lower teh overhead initially the more you have available for apps (I typically aim for a post boot idle RAM of between 40-45 megs, leaving enough for some apps to run) flash/plugins also eat up RAM and cpu. for video content I would normally use mplayer on the commandline on the lower powered machines , and where possible use cli and ncurses as the over heads are much much lighter

TKS Jase for the feedback, I appreciate it.

jan

No problem, I love older hardware - often taking in discarded laptops etc and like getting the most out of it (with PCLinuxOS).

Jase

[AndrzejL]

I am unable to confirm this:

[andrzejl@icsserver ~]$ ssh wishthinkpad
Last login: Sat Dec 10 16:05:26 2011
[andrzejl@wishthinkpad ~]$ lscpu
Architecture:          i686
CPU(s):                1
Thread(s) per core:    1
Core(s) per socket:    1
CPU socket(s):         1
Vendor ID:             GenuineIntel
CPU family:            6
Model:                 6
Stepping:              10
CPU MHz:               363.898
[andrzejl@wishthinkpad ~]$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (rev 03)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX AGP bridge (rev 03)
00:02.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1251A
00:02.1 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1251A
00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: Cirrus Logic CS 4610/11 [CrystalClear SoundFusion Audio Accelerator] (rev 01)
00:07.0 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 02)
00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01)
00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01)
00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 02)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Neomagic Corporation NM2200 [MagicGraph 256AV] (rev 12)
[andrzejl@wishthinkpad ~]$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS  "wishthinkpad.loc" running Linux 2.6.38.8-pclos3.bfs i386 [ PCLinuxOS release 2011 (PCLinuxOS) for i586 ]
CPU Info        Mobile Pentium II 256 KB cache flags( - ) clocked at [ 363.898 MHz ]
Videocard       Neomagic NM2200 [MagicGraph 256AV]  tty resolution ( 91x26 )
Processes 139 | Uptime 8:02 | Memory 142.6/406.2MB | HDD ATA TOSHIBA MK4032GA Size 40GB (85%used) | Runlevel 5 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.05
[andrzejl@wishthinkpad ~]$ uname -r
2.6.38.8-pclos3.bfs
[andrzejl@wishthinkpad ~]$

This machine is only Pentium 2 with 360 MHz and 440 MB of ram... works fine as a MiniMe installation with some KDE4 stuff deleted and LXDE used as a main DE...

I am using it to watch videos (even tho machine has only 2 MB neomagic GPU and ISA Cirrus Logic sound card), browsing internet using Firefox, checking mail using Thunderbird, listening to my podcast MP3's using XMMS or SMPlayer... Heck it works as a ssh client - connects to my main ssh server machine and takes over screen session or runs command. It has cron setup to sync via ssh with that machine. It's not extremely fast but it gets a job done.

I have another machine my ex server for WoTW (permanently off to save on ESB bills now) pentium 3 - 700 MHz 256 MB of RAM - didn't freeze up with this kernel either unless I turned on Firefox - why did it freeze up? Because it lacked RAM and it went to SWAP usage. If You can - add more memory to the machine. This should stop the freeze ups.

Another machine that I had (mobo died) was Pentium 3 Dell lappy with 1 GHz CPU. It was freezing with 256 MB of RAM when I switched on Firefox. I have added 512 MB of ram so it worked with 768 MB - no freezes there anymore.

I learned this way that the freezes were actually caused not by a fault of a CPU but a lack of ram.

Another thing - if You don't think it's a RAM usage fault - try to clean the machine inside. CPU runs very hot = machine freezes. This could be another cause of the problem.

Regards.

Andy

[melodie]

Hi,

For image editing on a machine needing light program, you can give a try to xara-extreme. We have it in the repos, it is eventually the latest which had been made available...

I just installed it, and gave it a try. Not obvious to get to start with, because no knowledge, but found the tutorials which are really good.

For info:
http://www.xaralx.org/

http://www.xaralx.org/about-performance.html

http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?28298-Video-Tutorials-and-Demos-for-Xara-Programs

Here it has started much faster than Gimp, or yet more more fast than Inkscape, and with the tutorials it seems easy to learn how to use it. In older machines... has to be tried. Xnview also, might be lighter than Gimp. Both Xara-X and Xnview being of course quite different... and it also depends what kind of work you need to do with images.

Regards,
Mélodie

[Hootiegibbon]

cstrike77,

After giving it a thought or two, for your image editing try out Image Magick after installing it launch it via cli ( its main executable is called "display") 

Jase

[cstrike77]

cstrike77,

After giving it a thought or two, for your image editing try out Image Magick after installing it launch it via cli ( its main executable is called "display")  

Jase

Been sick, sorry I've not posted.

I had that installed on my other drive when it crashed. There's so much to put back on this thing, I've re-installed some things but I'm trying to wait and see if Santa is going to bring me a present.

The only thing I use gimp for is re-sizing so I can use as wallpaper, and I've done one maybe two original wallpapers with it. Oh, forgot the darned scanner, not installed it either but have not had a use for it yet..

Trying to get caught up from the last few days, I downloaded this thread and have been reading it, thanks all for your help and suggestions.

Thanks guys!

jan

[pags]

I see it been discussed fairly well, now, but my $0.02 (running on an EeePC 701 - 4G):

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ uname -a
Linux eeepc.localdomain 2.6.38.8-pclos3.bfs #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jul 8 18:01:30 CDT 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 13
model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor          900MHz <-- Yes, this is faster than originally stated
stepping        : 8
cpu MHz         : 630.126 <-- but it never gets beyond this! (well, 600 give or take)
cache size      : 512 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 2
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss tm pbe nx up bts
bogomips        : 1260.25
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual
power management:

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ free
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       2065228    1810416     254812          0     112912     979916
-/+ buffers/cache:     717588    1347640
Swap:            0          0          0
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$

[AS]

I see it been discussed fairly well, now, but my $0.02 (running on an EeePC 701 - 4G):

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ uname -a
Linux eeepc.localdomain 2.6.38.8-pclos3.bfs #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jul 8 18:01:30 CDT 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 13
model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) M processor          900MHz <-- Yes, this is faster than originally stated
stepping        : 8
cpu MHz         : 630.126 <-- but it never gets beyond this! (well, 600 give or take)
cache size      : 512 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 2
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss tm pbe nx up bts
bogomips        : 1260.25
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual
power management:

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ free
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       2065228    1810416     254812          0     112912     979916
-/+ buffers/cache:     717588    1347640
Swap:            0          0          0
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$

pags,
what's the output of cpufreq-info on this box ?

[pags]

pags,
what's the output of cpufreq-info on this box ?

Code: [Select]

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ cpufreq-info
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpufreq@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU
  maximum transition latency: 0.00 ms.
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$


[AS]

pags,
what's the output of cpufreq-info on this box ?

Code: [Select]

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ cpufreq-info
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpufreq@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU
  maximum transition latency: 0.00 ms.
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$


I would try to setup a cpufreq governor, try to modprobe one of the following modules first:
acpi-cpufreq
asus-laptop
p4-clockmod

you may find further info here:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,87898.msg782429.html#msg782429
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,93725.0.html
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,93564.msg782452.html#msg782452

[pags]

pags,
what's the output of cpufreq-info on this box ?

Code: [Select]

[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$ cpufreq-info
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpufreq@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU
  maximum transition latency: 0.00 ms.
[jpaglia@eeepc ~]$


I would try to setup a cpufreq governor, try to modprobe one of the following modules first:
acpi-cpufreq
asus-laptop
p4-clockmod

you may find further info here:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,87898.msg782429.html#msg782429
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,93725.0.html
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,93564.msg782452.html#msg782452

Well....
It's my wife's PC, and it's running...she doesn't get too happy when I do something, and it takes days to "fix" it...the install is on an SD card, and it doesn't have great write speeds, so even large updates (such as KDE, etc.) can cause some inconvenience...

...I have a mess of other PCs and laptops to play with...I'll leave this one alone, for now.

(but, who knows what the future holds)